Episode 07: Phil Hyldgaard — Who Are The New Abolitionists On A Quest To End Slavery?

Phil currently serves as the Chief Operations Officer of A21, a Nonprofit organization unashamedly committed to ending slavery everywhere, forever.

Back in 2008, he launched the first operational office of A21, located in Greece. Six years later, Phil became the Executive Director where he developed their operational strategy helping it to expand its operations to 12 countries. During this time, Phil was the recipient the Trafficking in Persons Hero award by the US State Department

He was central to A21's response to the global refugee crisis that was impacting Greece, Iraq, Syria and other surrounding countries and in recognition of their incredible work A21 was awarded the Mother Theresa Award in 2017.

It was during A21's partnership with the The Refuge Initiative the I co-founded in Northern Iraq back in 2014 that I got to know Phil and the A21 leadership. During the five trips that Phil made to Iraq to oversee our partnership we became great mates and a someone that I deeply respect and am so grateful for. 

Now based in Copenhagen, Denmark, Phil has since stepped into the Global COO role and is responsible for global operations and program development. 

To Learn more about A21 visit www.A21.org. You can also follow Phil on Twitter @philhyld & Instagram @philiphyldgaard. 

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Full Transcript

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Phil Hyldgaard: I didn't know. I didn't know all this stuff was going on. I was 23-years-old. I'm from Denmark. Like I said, I've traveled the world a fair bit, probably more than the average young person had at that point. I've been in school. I've followed the news. I wasn't living under a rock and still, I completely felt like I did because no one had ever told me that there was millions of slaves in the world today. Victims of human trafficking, and that it was happening in every country, that it was so out of control, and I just didn't know. I was completely shocked.

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Tim Buxton: You're listening to Justice Matters with Tim Buxton. A podcast, inspiring the fight for a world where everyone belongs. Hi there. Welcome back to Justice Matters. Today, we're going to do a deep dive into the area of human trafficking. For this episode, I've got my friend, Phil Hyldgaard on the show. He is the global operations officer for A21. A21 is a nonprofit dedicated to eradicating slavery in the 21st Century.

They're literally raising up the next generation of abolitionists. Their work for the last 12 years in which Phil has been at the helm from the very beginning, setting up their first office in Greece. It's made some incredible accomplishments. They've been awarded the Mother Teresa Award amongst a litany of other awards. Phil to me is a really, really good friend. We had the privilege of partnering with A21 when we were living in Northern Iraq, serving refugees. We built homes for families that had fled ISIS, providing trauma care for them and aftercare for them.

Guys, you are going to be moved by some of the stories that he tells. I think some of the awareness that you'll gain from tuning into this podcast. Thanks for joining me. I really hope you get a lot out of it. How is it going, Phil? It is so good to have you on the Justice Matters podcast. I can't remember where we were the last time we met, whether it was in the UK in Iraq, or did we meet in the US? I'm trying to try to strike my memory fades.

Phil: No. We've met a few places and so I think I'm the same. I think the last time was in Iraq in 2017, Summer 2017. It's a couple of years ago now. I can't believe how quick the time has flown. It's so good to see.

Tim: I know. Man, I'm so proud of the work we've got to do with you in A21 in Iraq while we were there. Just the homes we were able to build for families that had fled ISIS, and the trauma care we were able provide. It was, for me, at least three and a half crazy, incredible years. I think you were there for a good chunk of that time working alongside us. This was amazing.

Phil: It was. It's absolutely a life highlight, for sure, to get to be part of that and to go there. I never thought I would set foot in Iraq. It was always one of those places I guess I wanted to go. I didn't went there just like you did in the same way, moving your whole family there. It was just amazing to come and visit you and to see the projects that you were working on there. I was blown away.

I think I got to go out there five times and see you guys. I'm super, super, super proud of what we got to do together. I love those partnership opportunities. I think even more so, there's just a connection you make personally as well with people. You and Sarah, and the whole family, they just stand out incredible people in my world that I feel so fortunate to get to me. This picture behind me is actually from the second last trip I had out there. I don't know if you remember that.

Tim: That's the front line.

Phil: That's right. Nicholas, my friend who came along, took this picture. We were right on the front line there looking out towards Mosul, and this area had just been freed like within a few weeks. The front line of ISIS was literally out in the horizon there. Then, seeing this shepherd that came back with his sheep walking out of there, the desert basically, I'll never forget that.

Tim: That's so true. Oh, man, I remember that so vividly. There was families, literally on intense that had just got out. We were there with some water and some basic supplies as they met them and screen them to make sure that they weren't a part of ISIS, and that they could actually come into the region, Kurdistan, where we were. Gosh, that's right. I can't believe you've come over five times but obviously makes sense with the, like you said, the friendship we have and the way I've looked up to you.

I remember when you first came out on your first trip, we were sitting in my living room on the floor, and you're telling us about your work in Greece and this incredible facility you've turned a shipping container, into a water station, and some of the great you were doing in air. Oh, gosh, it was just so fun to work together, and get to know you over the years. I really appreciate you coming on to talk some more.

Phil: Certainly.

Tim: Share a bit about the work, obviously, A21, we'll get into that. I really want to make this personal at the beginning and just ask you, where did it become personal for you? This issue of orienting your life of being passionate about justice and fighting for injustice that's happening to other people? Where did it start for you, Phil?

Phil: Tim, I can try to come up with a way of saying that it's been part of my whole life, and I think it has in many ways. I think there's been a deep sense of justice, righteousness in you that you want fixed to be fair, and you definitely want things to be fair for yourself as a child you grew up with that. It's got to be right and it's got to be equal and all of that. I was exposed to great injustice. I was very fortunate, I got to travel with my dad quite a bit.

He went to lots of countries to speak and minister. I got to go to Africa when I was 12-years-old. I got to go to Asia and Eastern Europe and China, lots of places before I was even 18-years-old. Got to travel to all these places and really go out and see need and injustice in the world. Just being completely honest, I don't think it ever clicked to me that I could be part of that solution at that state at that young age of 18.

It wasn't really until I really got on the ground in Greece, actually, that I really made a real personal connection with it. I was in Australia studying there, for three years. On the back of that, as I graduated, I got to connect with our founders of A21, Nick Christine Kane. They told me, and again, shock to rock my world, and it was very much an emotional thing. I would say when they really became embedded in the fabric of who I am, was probably about six months later.

Tim: Wow. That was after you've taken on this role. Right?

Phil: Yes.

Tim: Back in 2009. It was that when A21 was established.

Phil: When I was introduced to the whole thing, it had been announced like the concept, but I don't think there was even a website at that point. No activity had been done yet. Then we talked about the vision and dream and what we wanted to do. Our founders had been on a long journey with this really had I guess stumbled across it in their travel, and somehow it had hit them in a unique way.

There may be other needs that they have been exposed to and hadn't done in the same way. They both had young children, young girls at that point, and seeing posters of missing children, especially really connected with them. It really became a personal issue of fighting human trafficking. There was a special connection to Greece. They've been looking for ways that they could support groups in Greece and really do it that way.

Again, never thought that they would start an organization, but had really come to a point of like, "Okay, if we're serious about this, there wasn't something they could really get behind." They felt and so there was a need for actually stepping up and filling the gap. Again, they had never planned that. I certainly had never planned to go there or do this. They were just-- [crosstalk]

Tim: You were just at the right place at the right time, right?

Phil: I guess so. I have been on a bit of a soul searching journey about what was ahead for me. I think in many ways I had been probably a little bit selfish in that, to be honest, a bit presumed that I knew what was next and it was all a nice plan. It all sounded great. I think everyone that would tell it to you would be like, "Oh, that's a great idea." I really believe there's a higher calling in all of us to do good, and I think I had been on a journey with that. When this conversation happened, I just knew this is it. This is it.

When Nick told me about human trafficking, it was a real shock to me, I didn't know. I didn't know all this stuff was going on. I was 23 years old. I'm from Denmark. I've traveled the world fair bit, and probably more than the average young person had at that point. I've been in school. [chuckles] I've followed the news. I wasn't living under a rock, and still, I've completely felt like I did, because no one had ever told me that there was millions of slaves in the world today.

The victims of human trafficking that it was happening in every country that it was so out of control, and I just didn't know, I was completely shocked. That made me really angry to learn, and I just became like a vacuum cleaner for information. I was just pulling everything I knew, everything I could find on this topic to figure out what was going on. I was just blown away and absolutely broke my heart. Straightaway I was like, "Okay." They basically asked me if I would go to Greece and start what would be the first operational office of A21. Thinking back is like, what was I thinking.

Tim: [laughs]

Phil: I literally packed my two suitcases which had all my belongings at that point. I moved by myself to Greece to Thessaloniki, Greece, the northern part of Greece. I've never been there before when I moved there.

Tim: Oh, my goodness.

Phil: I knew no one there, and that was the start of A21 really. Yes. [laughs] From there, just this crazy rollercoaster that we've been on since.

Tim: There might be some people who this is the first time they're hearing about who A21 is and obviously it's focus on human trafficking. Since this began in 2008, when you packed your bags and moved to Greece, guys, you have now expanded to 12 countries. I understand you personally with the work have received the Trafficking In-persons Hero Award for the US State Department. The organization achieved the Mother Teresa Award. Now, that's named after my mum Teresa, who I'm--

Phil: Of course. [laughs]

Tim: Surely is a saint. She's incredible. I think we all know what an achievement would be to achieve that award. Obviously, right now you're the current Global Operations Manager for A21. Give us the snapshot of what it is that A21 does. Maybe obviously, your involvement over the years, as you alluded to, it's been a rollercoaster.

Phil: Yes. That's a big question. A21 is an organization that's fully focused on fighting human trafficking. Our mission is to abolish slavery everywhere forever. Human trafficking is our modern-day slavery. Human beings being sold, traded like commodities, exploited in labor trafficking and sex trafficking and all forms of that in people's own homes, people are forced to make the food we eat, build the buildings we live in, or work in, people are exploited for their bodies, and this is happening globally.

Today there's believed to be up or probably more than 40 million people living in slavery, which is most likely 40 million, which is more than there's ever been in the history of this planet. To think that slavery is something in the past is just simply not true. It is very much in our present. It is real in every single country in the world, it's well documented in every country and most communities in the world.

You shouldn't be surprised if you one day open your newspaper and hear of a case that happened in your town, in your village, in your community, because it's there and it is in the fabric of our society. This affects vulnerable people. It's vulnerable people in all ages and both genders. It can really happen to anyone anywhere, but obviously, human traffickers are looking for vulnerable people who they can easily or take advantage of.

That someone that may not miss or report missing, or someone who there's an open door into their lives. It really starts with that as a vulnerability factor. Then traffickers will find a way to basically take advantage of this person, exploit them, so there's an exploitation stage. What we also seeing is that very few victims are ever escaping this, it's very rare for someone to actually get out. It's down to the percentages, it's 1% or 2% who actually get out of trafficking.

Many actually die and succumb from what they go through within this, but those who do get out, those who do escape, what we see is that, if they're not helped, many of them are re-trafficked. They've been traffic ones and into a horrible and unthinkable situation, and then they're re-trafficked again. Having been through exploitation, having experienced trauma like that, obviously, you are at an even higher sense of vulnerability than you were in the first place.

If you haven't been able to work through and resolve those root issues, then it's very likely that you're still coming out probably even more broken person than you were in the first place. There's this cycle that takes place of vulnerability, exploitation, re-trafficking, and that's what we're seeing. For us as an organization, what we want to do is we want to basically be an off-ramp, we want to be a response to those three stages, this cycle of human trafficking that's taken place.

We have a mission or a strategy called reach, rescue, restore. Reach is all about bringing prevention to those that are most vulnerable, creating educational materials. We're reaching literally now hundreds of thousands, millions of students with material in schools. They're out in vulnerable communities with prevention work, and we are trying to raise awareness in a broader level as well in a mass level as well. Informing the everyday person everywhere and trying to equip them to make a difference.

The second part is this rescue part where we want to see victims rescued. We want to see victims extracted from human trafficking and recovered out of that situation. We're building different strategies to do that. We're running now three national hotlines in obviously three different countries. We are operating something called the Child Advocacy Center, both in Cambodia and in Thailand. Training lots of frontline professionals in how to identify victims. We are actively involved in operations to see victims come out.

Finally, in response to the re-trafficking, we are very focused and that was the first thing we started with, was our restoration work. We want to see survivors of trafficking not just escape trafficking, but actually come out and find a sense of wholeness, and we really believe that's possible.

Given tools to actually live a good life, a successful life, where they are not forever a victim but they can become a survivor and they can overcome the things that they've gone through and we can give them some tools on that journey. That's a primary focus for us is to do that, and that is really the only way that we don't see this cycle continuing. Very strategically trying to play our part in this issue.

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Tim: Justice Matters is brought to you by You Belong. If you'd like to learn more about their work, Empowering Refugees to Integrate and Thrive in Australia, head on over to youbelong.org.au. There you'll find ways to get involved, volunteer, and financially get behind the several initiatives they've got going on. There's also a stack of articles and blogs books that you'll find there, they're really informative and engaging. Now, did you know this podcast is actually a video podcast featured on YouTube? Just search Justice Matters TV on YouTube and watch each episode right there. While you're there, hit subscribe and get notified each time a new video drops. I love that whole holistic approach where it's not just you don't want to just focus on one thing, and then realizing you've just got the front door of rescuing someone is big, but then the back door is bigger. It's like it's really critical. I love the way you've partnered with so many other whether it be local enforcement groups on the ground or with other agencies to make sure you're providing that network.

Phil: Yes. It's really only the way it's possible. Without pots, there's just no way. It's just too big and no one organization no one government can do this on their own. We need to work together and that is a huge foundation in an organization as to how could we work together, just like we were working with you?

Tim: As I think too where you mentioned this whole idea of vulnerable people is like this main target group, it makes me feel how this isn't just one issue of justice. It's so interconnected. When there are more vulnerable people in society, whether it be through systemic issues of poverty or racism, that means that there's going to be more opportunity for those that want to take advantage. It's not just this compartmentalized all I focus on this one issue, it's all integrated, which as you talking help me, "Wow, that's so true." Do you have thoughts on that?

Phil: Yes. There's so many peripheral issues that helps drive this. There's a reason why we have human trafficking today. There's a reason why it's here. It didn't just happen. It's because there's opportunity too. Traffickers, obviously driven by lots of things there. There's a huge profit involved in this. There's huge money aspect in this as well that it's an organized crime.

Tim: How much is the industry? It's like billions.

Phil: Honestly, no one knows, but the best estimate from the UN is over 150 billion a year. That's the biggest companies in the world three or four combined to hit that annual revenue, I guess. There's a driving factor of that. Then there's these two sides. There's this supply and demand, really. It's because a lot of time when we look at human trafficking people are like, "How can people be so evil? How can they actually exist in our world? I don't want to justify it anyway because it certainly existed. It's terrible, but there is a reason.

When you start understanding that this is an organized crime, it has one purpose which is profit. The purpose of them is not to ruin people's lives. That's a byproduct of what they're doing. They have no as this complete disregard for people's health and well being in this, but there is a profit that drives it. Right now, human trafficking as a crime is very low risk and high profit, and the chances of getting caught is, unfortunately, way too low. The consequences of being arrested are even lower. Prosecution of traffickers--

Tim: How so?

Phil: Well, let me try to explain it if we can because it's hot. It's like, well, obviously, if you are someone who is a slave trader, essentially, if you're someone who is exploiting another human being, then surely that our justice system will pick that up. It's a real challenge for our justice systems to actually prosecute these cases. If you think about it in every other case, in every other crime, you usually have several things. You have some evidence of that crime happening.

You have a victim of the crime and you have a witness of the crime, and you have some piece of evidence. That's usually how law enforcement would deal with a crime. What would we do? We interview the witness, and then we send them off. The crime is usually someone else. They get some comfort somewhere. Then, we have the evidence of the crime is some material evidence that we usually put in a Ziploc bag and put in a storage room. At least that's what I've seen on the movies. The problem with human trafficking is that all of those three components is one person.

Tim: Oh, wow.

Phil: It's one person. Often, the victim of human trafficking is the only witness that's willing to cooperate with law enforcement. It is the victim of the crime. They're also their own body typically, are the evidence of the crime. You can then add adolescence to that. You can then add being a child to that or a young person, which is majority of these cases. You can see how the challenge of an illegal gun, illegal weapon, an illegal drug, they can't talk. They are a thing.

It's black on white, if I catch you with that, it was on your possession, you're guilty. A person, a human being can be manipulated, threatened. You can have an influence on their response. If they are all those three components, it's very intimidating for a victim to stand in court to face the person who absolutely ruined their life, and had some power over their life.

Then, for that person to have justice, especially if they're usually a foreigner, they don't speak the local language, there's so many issues that means that result in so low prosecutions of victims of human trafficking and actually traffic is going to prison. We don't have statistics on this, really. There's really outdated data when it comes to how many traffickers are actually going to jail, but the oldest and one we have, the newest one we have is like 10 years old and it was here in Europe and it suggested that 1 in 100,000 traffickers would be sentenced for their crimes.

Tim: 1 in 100,000.

Phil: That's 0.001%.

Tim: This is alarming.

Phil: Yes. Hopefully, those statistics have changed today and they're better, but there's no way that they are the way they should be. We see this is a battle. For us in doing aftercare and looking after survivors of trafficking, it's a primary focus to actually represent them, making sure there's a fair trial, making sure there's a good translator, making sure we have good lawyers, making sure that everything is followed through. We have seen now 142 traffickers sentenced to prison. We've won 83 court cases.

They've had a combined sentence of I just found 2,600 years and received fines of $3.5 million in fines for their crimes. This is important. These are important. Every single court case is like a miracle. You see that happen and because it means that this trafficker is no longer able to traffic others, it means that it brings it increases that risk of getting involved in this crime every time a case is heard and we have it solved. It brings great justice for the survivors who were involved.

Tim: I can imagine like every one of those victories. I follow you guys on Instagram and I saw your story that you posted up, even just for this year 2020 alone, you have 95 victims identified, 51 new survivors in your care, over 1,300 frontline professionals trained and over 2,000 hotline calls linked to trafficking. That's just this year's alone which is incredible.

Phil: Yes. I think those numbers need to be seen in the context of Corona because I would like to see even more.

Tim: Okay. All right.

Phil: I'm very proud of how our team has led for the season because I think we're in an extraordinary season where many organizations have had to close and have not been able to help anyone, have not been able to function. We've been able to see new victims rescued right throughout this Corona season, which has impacted every single country that we working in. Pretty much our whole staff has been working remotely the last three or four months and so being able to continue our lives, continue our work, continue looking after every single survivor in our care, is pretty extraordinary. It's an amazing team.

Tim: Yes, and you highlight a story in that- in particular Instagram post and I can imagine for over the 12 years now that you've been doing this, you get some highs, you get some lows. Could you elaborate for me on some of these lows? Is there any particular difficult- may be challenging moment that you had to navigate through that you could share?

Phil: Yes. No, it's a great question. I mean, it has been an absolute rollercoaster ride, and it's been lots of ups and downs. Lots of great ups, lots of great highs, and so many great things that's happened, but definitely it's a challenging work. There is no manual on how to end human trafficking out there, and especially when we started. The early days, it was like, "We don't know what we are doing." Like, "We're just trying to figure this out."

I would say, personally, those kind of early days were really tough. It was tough work. We had just low experience. We were trying to figure things out. We had suddenly very quickly-- I got on the ground and landed in this brand-new country back in 2008, and we had nothing. We opened a little office and we made it look good, but there wasn't really much going on.

Well, within two months we were in the Mayor's office of the city, and we basically took over a very, very small shelter that they had tried to set up but had been unsuccessful with. They had been working on this project for three years and helped four people and they were just like, "It's very difficult, but here you go. Here's a place you can do what you want to do." I mean, we just took over the rent of this place. We weren't donated anything, but what it gave us was just some credibility.

We were able to function, and one month later we opened this place. Within three months of being there, we had a functioning shelter for victims of human trafficking that was certified by the government. I mean, we were barely registered at the point, and so it went really quick. This is where it clicked home for me. It was one night, I remember it very clear, 2008 December, I think it was the 16th, the middle of winter in Greece, and it does get winter in Greece.

You just only go there when it's summer. Try to go there in winter. It gets snowy, it's cold, it's raining. I remember we got the call from the police in Athens, and they were like, "We have a victim. We want to send her to you." We didn't know anything, we didn't have a name, we didn't have anything like that. They put her on a bus by herself for 9 hours, and she arrived. We didn't know her. We didn't know what happened to her. We didn't know her story. Nothing.

I was standing there with two of my female colleagues. She arrived at the train station in the middle of the night, 2:00 AM, and we try to look after her. We got her to the home and looked after her and all that. I just remember her looking at me like, "What is this guy doing here? Who is he?" What we didn't know is that at that point, she thought that the police had just sold her.

Tim: Oh my goodness.

Phil: That's the kind of the thinking and reality of what's going on. She had been trafficked for three years in Greece, across 11 different brothels had been sold. She, in her own words, said that she had to service up to 100 men in a day. I don't know how that's possible. Even if half of that was true, it's insane. I can't even imagine. She came into our care and she thought that I was the next trafficking boss.

Tim: Oh my goodness.

Phil: We had to bring her into our care and look after her, and just a few days before Christmas, her appendix burst. Appendicitis, and we rushed to the hospital. We take her through all the surgery, we go through all of that with her and we take her through that whole journey and it's just a crazy time, right and it's all happening. Two months later, well, in the midst of all this, at that point, I was just a young guy. I definitely didn't know what it meant to become a dad.

I've had that privilege recently, but I felt such an overwhelming sense of responsibility in carrying this. I don't know if this is a low, but it was definitely the most challenging season of my life when it comes to the work that we do. In standing there and making this thing happen and coming to terms with the reality of what I kind of jumped into, this adventure that I jumped into and suddenly it got very real.

I think there's many moments like that where it's like you feel a sense being overwhelmed. Projects that don't work out, places you want to go and start and do that you're not able to. Maybe you don't have the finances to or the opportunity to. Close people who you work with, who you think will be with you for the long term that decide to go another way.

I've been in this for 12 years now. I would say I've seen my fair share of all of those. Then there's the personal challenges in the midst of all of that. I think this season has been-- there's like three worlds that I think I have. There's the world, right, the world we live in. There is my own personal world and then there is my organizational world, the world that I'm part of with the organization. I would say, these last four months have been tough for all three.

Tim: Really.

Phil: I think many can relate to this.

Tim: Yes.

Phil: You feel like the whole world is on fire because all those three worlds, there's pressure on, there's challenges, there's things to overcome. In the midst of that, it has always, always been okay, we keep trusting, we keep stepping out, keep doing the best with what we have and we keep focusing on the good, and we keep finding a way forward, and somehow it has worked out okay. Just to finish the story of this young girl, and this really brings it back to the first question you asked about, "When does this become personal to you?" Because this is where it became personal to me. I quickly learned that she was born the same year as me, she was born the same month as me.

Tim: Oh my.

Phil: We were born at the same time in two different worlds. I grew up in Denmark in a nice family, was loved by my parents. Privileged, blessed, call it whatever you want. She grew up in a broken family in Eastern Europe in poverty. There was abuse in the family. There was alcoholism in the family. It was a broken home. There was violence in the family and when we both turned 19 years old, we were both driven to leave our country and it was driven out of, "I want to figure out who I am, I want to explore the world."

I got on a plane to Australia, got to go to college for three years, travel, meet the most amazing people. I love Australia, by the way, and I had just the best time and it changed my life. It was just the most incredible thing. Meanwhile, at the same time, she travels to Greece and thinks, "This is the beginning of a new life for me. I got away from all my past and all the stuff."

Within a month, she got a job in a restaurant and the owner realized she's here alone. She doesn't know anyone, she doesn't speak the language, vulnerable person. She's looking for opportunity. He literally took her and trapped her and started abusing her. This poor innocent young girl was raped and trafficked into the sex industry in Greece for three years while I'm at college, and then we both meet at this bus station, after the fact. After college, I went to Greece. After she's been through this—

One day I was able to escape the situation. Ends up in the police center and there we meet for the first time. I just realized that I had done nothing to deserve the life that I've had. Zero. I was born into this family. I've done nothing to deserve their love. I've done nothing to deserve having the opportunities and the life that I have and to have a good upbringing. In the same way, she had done absolutely nothing to deserve growing up with and in the family that she grew up in and the injustice that she experienced.

We were both driven by the same thing. We didn't do anything wrong. I was driven by the same thing that she was when I move to another country. Yet, she was the one who experienced injustice, and I was the one who experienced something amazing. I realized one thing and that is that I think freedom and slavery has one thing in common. They're underserved. They're underserved. Yes, we all deserve freedom, but I have done nothing to deserve mine, and she had done nothing to deserve her injustice. The question that I had to ask myself was, "What will I do with the freedom that I have?"

Tim: Yes, come on.

Phil: Because if I start recognizing that I have been given something that's very precious that, yes, everyone deserves and should have, but not everyone has and not everyone has received, what will I do with the blessing, with the privilege, with what I have received? What will I do with that? Because I think it comes with a responsibility. Comes with a responsibility. That responsibility is to see it used to see other people have that opportunity. That's what price my life. That's when it became real for me, that it might as well have been me that was born into that family, into that situation as well. It wasn't, so now what do I do with that?

Tim: I know your faith is important for you in that respect just as it is for me. I think to this notion of this idea of justice can be making somebody else's problem my problem. In the same way that for me, Jesus, he made my problem his problem. He gave up his privilege. He gave up his- whatever you want to call it -his everything so that my problem would become his and he could eradicate--

Phil: Greatest example.

Tim: Yes, the greatest example that you and I ever have. It just makes me think as you said, "What are we going to do?" Because what each of us has received is incredible love, this incredible freedom that all of us wherever you are, it's ours and that responsibility to share that.

Phil: Tim, what has been even just-- Sorry for getting a bit full on here, but what I have also seen is that with every survivor that we've been involved with, they have all the reason to live angry, upset, selfish. If anyone ever had an excuse to be like that it would be them. But what I've seen is that every single survivor is when we come to the point where it's talks about the future, they start dreaming again, you ask them what they want to do. What do they want to do? They want to help others. They want to be doctors. They want to be police officers. They want to do good. They want to help others because they were helped.

I'll be honest with you, there was a part of this where I was like, "I haven't--" There's almost like a situation where the majority of people who are actually involved in doing good and helping others have themselves been through something horrific. They are the victims of something. I just don't think it's right. I just don't think it's fair, that it should lie on those who have themselves have been victims of something to also save the world.

Tim: They've lost lots of their life. Their opportunities have been stolen and taken from them.

Phil: That's the story of our founders. If it hadn't been for Christine Caine and to take this step, I don't know if I would have been involved. Her testimony is overcoming abuse and overcoming things that are just horrific, and you can imagine. It cannot be left to those who have themselves been victims to be the saviors of or be the only ones who are helping those who are in need. That is all of our responsibility. It took me some time to understand that and to get that. I think--

Tim: It's not-- Sorry.

Phil: No, go.

Tim: I was going to say, isn't that really ultimately what A21 is about. It's about saying, "Look, this is a movement that everyone can and should be a part of". As much as it is providing care on the front lines, as much as it is rescuing and reaching, it's advocating. It is raising awareness. It is setting very practical things. There's a lot of initiatives that you do. I love your walk for freedom that you do that happens in countless cities around the world every year.

Phil: 500 cities last year in one day.

Tim: 500 cities. Everyone's got duct tape on their mouth, is that right, and they walk silently?

Phil: We've taken some of that off because it got a bit intense in some places and got a bit misunderstood, but everyone is wearing the same thing. Everyone is bringing the same message. Tens of thousands of people who are walking on the same day, in the same way, in one single line in silence with a message on their t-shirt or jacket. We are distributing fliers. We're doing interviews with media we're bringing. Last year, it was 500 cities, 52 countries, tens of thousands of people walking, about 80 million people reached on social media with this and then even more so in public media that were was blasted.

Yes, you're right. That is as much as part of our mission is to actually empower the one, the individual out there to make a difference because we believe that everyone can play a part in this. You don't have to move to Iraq or Greece to make a difference. You can make a difference where you are because why? First of all, human trafficking happens everywhere. Secondly, it's relevant to everyone in the world to hear this message.

If we all were aware of human trafficking, it could simply not exist at the scale that it does today. If we were all playing our part in using our voice, in using our resources, in using time, and so on, using our own platform to make a difference, man, we could really see change in this world. That's the bigger change that needs to happen. Our website is full of-

Tim: So much information.

Phil: -resource.

Tim: Oh my gosh. That is often the first step. Like you said, you became aware of it, and you just decided, "I'm going to knuckle down and do some research". When you realize, wow, the things I purchase and my purchasing power can influence whether this human trafficking disease, virus, whatever you want to call it, is still as pervasive as it is, there are so many powerful tools that we have that we can enact and engage with in order to make a difference.

Phil: We are an organization that's funded on individuals giving. It's people giving donations that make this possible, and all the work that we've done and all the expansion that we've seen has been possible because people have believed in our mission and has been wanting to give toward us. That's significant. There are great resources there that are all on our website where you can educate yourself or you can use to educate others in your world with. They're all free. We give it all the way. We have everything from parent guides on how to actually have the conversation with your child about human trafficking-

Tim: No way. Awesome.

Phil: -and even online safety for your children as well. Unfortunately, a lot of human trafficking is moving online. There's a lot of exploitation taking place online. I would encourage anyone who is a parent to go and check those out. They're absolutely free. You can go and download. There's two different age group. There's one for under 12 and over 12 years old. So how do you have a conversation with them about protecting your child online and also informing them about the reality of human trafficking? Go and check that out. There are resources-[crosstalk]

Tim: I'm definitely going to check that out. I've got a nine-year-old and a seven-year-old and gosh. Those are invaluable resources because that's the hard thing. Sometimes this is a difficult thing to talk about. It's confronting, and it's challenging. Part of even this whole podcast and speaking with people like yourselves that are on the frontlines doing stuff is to actually be prepared to be confronted with some challenging stuff, to feel a little uncomfortable. Wow, what am I doing in my own life? Not to necessarily guilt you, but to make you aware, make us all aware of what is happening.

Look, man, we're running a little out of time because I know it's the morning for you and you've got calls and things to jump on. Just as you were sharing there about some of the exciting things that you guys have got going, you've expansion in the ways that people can get involved in the great resources. You've had some growth and expansion in your own personal life too, which is been super exciting and an incredible, incredible journey I know. You alluded it to it early, becoming a dad. Gosh, tell me about that, man. What's it like? Welcome to the club.

Phil: Thank you.

Tim: You know what my crazy ragtag's like, but you have a sweet, sweet wife, Nina. I got to meet her in In London when we were there, and gosh, what a blessing mate you've got now. Tell me about the last few months what that's been like.

Phil: It's been a long journey for us. It's been a dream my whole life to become a dad and the same for my wife. It didn't quite happen in the timing that we expected or the way that we expected. We've been through a longer season and journey of infertility, but we last year experienced the miracle of Nina falling pregnant. End of April, we finally received our little baby girl into this world, and she is just perfect. This has just been the best and challenging season of life. We feel so incredibly blessed. I love her, and I feel like I'm falling in love with this little girl every day.

Tim: Oh man.

Phil: She's just come to the stage now where she's really smiling every day. Every time you go over and look at her she gives you the biggest smile, and it's just oh my gosh. Yes, indescribable really and is everything and more than than I hoped it was. I feel so incredibly blessed to have this opportunity and also responsibility to raise this girl.

Tim: I remember just seeing a bit of the journey from afar. Your wife even got a tattoo. She shared her story publicly I think at your church, and it just-- oh man. It was beautiful.

Phil: She's a fighter. She's a fighter. She's extremely tough. Obviously, this wouldn't ever happen if that was not the case. We would have not been able to walk through this, but yes, we've been through an incredible journey of we ended up in the medical system for help. It's been extremely hard. The last five years has been marked by this journey, and we even located to another country in the midst of that. Yes, it's been confusing. It's been hard. We've experienced so many failures, so many low points in that, both of failed treatments and procedures and also experiencing loss, losing along the way of miscarriages.

It's been so confusing and super hard, but yes, we're just so thankful for what we have and that it's possible. Even through the pregnancy, there's been lots of complications. Let's just say we've all been in hospital our fair share this year and then in the midst of corona and all of that as well, it's been interesting. Just super thankful that we have our little Lexie Hope.

Tim: Man, I tell you what, when I get her little photos pop up on my little feed every now and then, just she's got the biggest most beautiful smile. She's blessed to have you and Nina as parents.

Phil: Thank you.

Tim: I'm so thrilled to see that journey that you're on. So many exciting things ahead. Is there anything that you want to share as we wrap things that's exciting and new that's on the horizon for A21 that Allison get a head start on?

Phil: We haven't quite announced this yet, but we have a brand new concept. I think by the time this come out it may have actually been launched. I'm going to go for it.

Tim: Do it.

Phil: This year, because of the corona crisis, we've had to make adjustments when it comes to our walk for freedom, which is our annual event, but this year, we're going to do something called the Global Freedom Summit. It's an amazing idea that really will work under any form of government restrictions, and anyone can get involved in this. It keeps a lot of the idea of walk for freedom where it's about us being made aware about spreading awareness in our world and then taking actions to make other people aware around this. It's going to be a single day focused around October 17.

Tim: October, 17, put that in your calendar.

Phil: If you're not following A21 on social media or the website, do that. You'll find all the information there. Over the next little season, we're going to start rolling this out, and we're just believing that it's going to be a real statement in the-- a real stake in the ground. When it comes this generation, we believe that slavery can end, that we can see an end to human trafficking and that we can live in a free world where people have freedom and are not trapped under this atrocious injustice.

Your voice matters in that, every single person out there, so I really hope that many people will find a way to be part of that. There's many ways to get involved in that. Really, there's a way for everyone to get involved, no matter what your situation may be at the time. I look forward to see that go out there. That's a big one that's coming up.

Tim: It's exciting. Yes.

Phil: Yes, we're really excited.

Tim: Awesome, so October 17th. They can definitely follow you guys on Instagram. I love the updates I get at A-- What's the handle for that?

Phil: It's a21.org is our website, @A21 on Instagram.

Tim: Easy.

Phil: Then find us there. We're also on Twitter and-

Tim: All those other stuff.

Phil: -Facebook. You can find us that way.

Tim: Go to the website. Great resources for your family, for your own education. There's so many ways you can support, donate, and just get behind this incredible, incredible work that you guys are doing. Man, you're a blessing. You're amazing. You're an inspiration to me, and I'm so glad and grateful for the time we had to catch up. It's been a great excuse to have this podcast just so we can talk some more. Don't be surprised now that I got your Skype details again that I don't hassle you again in the near future and we can catch up some more.

Phil: Please do, Tim. You're one of the few real people that I look up to in my life. The way that you guys have lived your life and are living your life is just an incredible testimony to how I want to live my life. You are an incredible example for me and for many others I know. I just love your spirit and your heart. Thank you for the opportunity to be on this podcast and to speak to all your followers and listeners in this way. I don't take it for granted, so thank you so much. Please, do call me

Tim: I bet you. I will.

Phil: Stay in touch.

Tim: I got a cute little boy, August. He's pretty handsome. I'll start--

Phil: [chuckles]

Tim: Yes.

Phil: I see. Yes, sounds good.

Tim: Anyways, look, mate, I'm going to let you get out of here and get to your family and get your day going. Thanks again, mate. We'll talk again soon.

Phil: No, thank you. Thanks, Tim. Take care.

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Tim: I hope you enjoyed this interview that I had with Phil Hyldgaard. He's an absolute legend. I'm just so grateful that I got to share not only him but the incredible work that he leads with A21 with you today. If you'd like to learn more about the work of A21, head on over to their website. It's very simple. It's a21.org. You can also learn about this exciting new event that they've got coming up. It's called the Global Freedom Summit. It's happening on October 17th. It's about gathering people globally to take action locally to address human trafficking and to abolish slavery everywhere. Definitely jump on, join in, and be part of that work. They're an incredible organization.

Now, if you want to hear the rest of the conversation that I have with Phil, you can actually do that by being a Patreon of this podcast. Simply just head on over to patreon.com/justicematters where for as little as $5 a month, you're going to get access to bonus content like the additional conversation I have with Phil and other behind the scenes extras. Today, right now, I'd like to thank a Patreon who's jumped on and joined us. It's Rachel Chimits She's all the way in Colorado, and that actually makes it the fourth country represented on the Patreon team. Thanks so much, Rachel, for jumping on board and to all other Patreons out there.

Now, shout out goes to the music artists, John Ardt and David Gungor, also known as the brilliance for the music that is used on this podcast, and as always, my man, Jose Biotto, the audio-visual engineer for this podcast. Thank you so much for your incredible skills that you use on this podcast. Appreciate it, mate. Lastly, there are so many other ways you can actually support this podcast, simply by sharing it with somebody that you know. Send them a text message, flick them a link to the podcast, and maybe even if you got a couple of minutes, jump on Apple podcast and Spotify and give it a review. Maybe give it five stars, if you don't mind. That'd be great. A little bit can go a long way. Guys, it's been great being with you. Join me again soon for another episode of Justice Matters. I'm your host, Tim Buxton. Thanks for listening.

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