Episode 08: Rachael Carter — How is “You Belong” Empowering Refugees To Integrate & Thrive?

Since 2018, Rachael Carter has been the Operations Manager for youBelong, a nonprofit empowering refugees to thrive in Australia by facilitating community integration and personal growth through training and generous hospitality. 

youBelong is known for their extravagant Welcome Picnics, ground-breaking GROW resilience trauma recovery program, and their various relationship-based English language groups and home visit initiatives. 

Rachael brings to her leadership role with youBelong a 15-year successful nursing career, including her role as Nursing Clinical Lead in the set up of a new General Practice through to it gaining successful accreditation.

Most recently she pioneered the role of Refugee Health Nurse in a Settlement Agency in Toowoomba, which was the first role of its kind in the state of Queensland.

In this episode, we talk about Rachael's personal journey and passion to serve refugees and vulnerable newcomers to Australia, as well as the adventure of teaming up with youBelong founder, Tim Buxton, to launch and oversee their work in Toowoomba, Australia. 

You can follow Rachael on Instagram @rach.cart. You can also learn more about the work of youBelong by visiting www.youbelong.org.au or following youBelong on Twitter, Instagram & Facebook @youbelongaust

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Full Transcript

[music]

Rachael: We don't know each other's stories. There can be so much pain, but so much joy as well. I think what I'd love to see more people do is to lean in, as you say, and get to know someone, even if it's just one person, and they’ll feel… what that will do for that person will move mountains for that person in helping them feel like they are valued and that they belong here.

[music]

Tim: Hey there, welcome, my name is Tim, and today on the show we have Rachael Carter. She’s the operational manager of youBelong Australia. It’s a charity that exists to empower refugees to thrive here in Australia, to integrate into society. She’s also had an incredible role in being one of the pioneers in refugee health care, taking up a role as a refugee health nurse, the first of its kind in the state of QLD Australia. 

We talk a bit about her journey towards having such a passion for helping refugees, and serving them, and empowering them. It’s really just such a special interview, because she for me personally, as we’ve launched this new charity youBelong, has probably been the single most influential person in making it the success that it is today. I’m really excited to share with you this great conversation I had with her. I hope you enjoy it, thanks. 

Tim:  Well, Rachael Carter, thank you so much for coming on the Justice Matters Podcast. Yes, it's quite fitting, isn't it? You are the operations manager of youBelong and you've been my right-hand person from the very beginning. In fact, we all know the tables have turned really essentially. I'm here to help you continue to do a fantastic job in leading the work of youBelong, you provide such an incredible passion and vibrancy to the workup there in Toowoomba, which is a small little country town, but they would like to think of themselves as--

Rachael: Yes, not so small.

Tim: Right as quite a big city in the state of Queensland, Australia.

Rachael: Yes. I think it's actually like the largest regional city in Queensland. I don't know about this one.

Tim: I stand corrected. Yes, you really have been doing an incredible job over the last couple of years, but it wasn't your first role in working with refugees. You started out as pioneering a role basically in the health area, which is your background. Tell us a little bit about where you got your start in really engaging with the refugee community.

Rachael: Yes. I'm a registered nurse and I got a position in Multicultural Development Australia, which is the settlement service that's in Toowoomba. Usually, refugee health nurses are placed in hospitals or GP practices. This was the first one placed within a settlement agency and so I got to journey with the refugees from-- so for some of them, the minute they got off the plane right through to settling them into schools and into their health care providers and stuff like that. It was, awesome.

Tim: Yes. Again, like one of the first of its kind in Queensland right?

Rachael: Yes, two roles one in Ipswich and one in Toowoomba. They were that first in Queensland, which is pretty cool. It was pretty good to try and figure out exactly what that role was going to be.

Tim: So, You're a Toowoomba girl, right?

Rachael: I am born and bred.

Tim: Born and bred. This town is got quite a history of welcoming refugees and I think that's something that most people in Toowoomba we're really, really proud of. What was it like growing up for you in this town of Toowoomba and how did this new identity that Toowoomba has as being a refugee welcome zone impacted you?

Rachael: Yes, it's interesting. Actually, even though I went to States high school, I didn't ever interact with any refugees. Yes, Toowoomba was taking refugees, but it was easy actually not to be involved or not to interact and not that that's anyone's fault. It just, I think it wasn't in your face, but then all of a sudden, in 2017, we received a lot more than we had like three times the usual amount.

It was just a whole heap more obvious that they were refugees in our city, even though we'd been welcoming. Toowoomba has been a refugee welcome zone since 2013 but before that, we'd received refugees as well. Yes.

Tim: You've got obviously and that's largely due to people in the council, the mayor in particular--

Rachael: Yes, he's very welcoming of refugees and what they can bring to the region.

Tim: Yes. Contribute and they have, obviously Australia as a nation has been built on those that have migrated here, those that have found a new start and a place here. We've got a rich history of multiculturalism of welcoming those from afar. I think it's in our National Anthem, isn't it and the second verse from those who've come across the seas or something like that.

Rachael: I don't know those words quite as well as the first verse but yes.

Tim: Yes. Isn't that funny though? Most Australians would not have a clue what the second verse of our own Anthem is or the fact that there's potentially like four verses, right?

Rachael: Yes. Is, there four verses.

Tim: I think there is. Maybe they added like all these extra ones, later on.

Rachael: I feel a bit ashamed now.

Tim: You feel ashamed.

Rachael: I didn't know that, four verses.

Tim: I don't know most Aussies, I don't know about you, but we didn't get a very good education on Australian history. I don't think in school, but there we go. Your role began in Toowoomba, pioneering role in the nurse nursing area of healthcare with refugees. I'd love to know what got you into nursing and I guess having known you for a few years now, it's obvious to me while you'd be such an incredible nurse because you've got such a caring, compassionate, and helping heart. Yes, what took you down that journey in the first place?

Rachael: I always wanted to be a nurse forever.

Tim: Really?

Rachael: Yes. Since I was a tiny little kid. My grandma was a nurse, my mum was a nurse.

Tim: Can I just let you in?

Rachael: Yes.

Tim: My mum was a nurse. My two sisters are nurses. My brother married a nurse and my mum was desperate for me to become a nurse.

Rachael: Oh really.

Tim: Maybe in another life.

[laughter]

She was like, "No, really you should become a nurse," and that was probably the macho man in me that said there's no way, but I know there's some incredible guy nurses out there, but you followed your family lineage of being a nurse.

Rachael: Yes. It was a no brainer for me, went and did nursing. I worked in the acute setting for a long time and had my children in that time. Then I wanted a job that was a little more family-friendly, I guess something nine to five. I wasn't doing night duty and this opportunity has popped up with MDA. I was just scrolling through, SEEK, and it jumped out at me straight away working with refugees and working with a minority group and people who, I really felt like I could make a difference. I went for it, but I didn't get the job.

Tim: No way.

Rachael: Yes, I didn't get it.

Tim: It doesn't matter.

Rachael: Another lass got it, but she actually never started it. Wasn't going to fit in with her family. They rang me up and gave me the job eight weeks later. I was second on the list. [laughs]

Tim: Well, they certainly got the right girl at the right time.

Rachael: It was good timing for me and my family too. It was just all history from there.

Tim: Wow. That's how we met while you were still in that role. You talked about how Toowoomba went through this phase where they started receiving a lot more refugees. The community that had a lot of refugees from the Congo, from Sudan, what other regions? Afghanistan?

Rachael: Afghanistan, Eritrean. I can't say that word right, ever.

Tim: No, that sounded pretty good, better than what I would say. There was a particular influx.

Rachael: Yes. In mid-2017, we started seeing Iraqi and Syrian refugees, particularly that of the minority group of Yazidi people. They'd suffered great atrocities in their home countries. There was a large amount of those that needed to seek refuge. Toowoomba was identified as a place where that would suit their culture because they come from an agricultural background. I thought regional Australia would be a good place for them to settle.

Toowoomba, and Coffs Harbour, and Wagga Wagga were some of the places that they chose. We saw I think, 600 in that second half of 2017, or something, or in that first 12 months. It was a big influx from receiving between 100 and 200 refugees a year.

Tim: Wow. How does the community adapt to that? That's quite a jump in numbers.

Rachael: How did they adapt? It certainly was a challenge too, because all of a sudden we had big influxes of children in schools that didn't know English. We'd always had some. I think Toowoomba took it on and rose to the occasion. That's where youBelong started to, was part of that, meeting the needs there in Toowoomba. I think we rose to the occasion, but there's always opportunity for growth there, isn't there?

Tim: Right. Toowoomba is a town that, it's known for, obviously, the Festival of Flowers, which is a big drawcard for that place. People come from all over Australia to see the beautiful flowers.

Rachael: They do.

Tim: September, is it?

Rachael: September, yes, beginning of springs. When everything's out in bloom, and they have a big parade. Yes, it's beautiful.

Tim: It was also known for a while for this Easter festival. Easterfest, I think was a Christian or gospel music festival. The cool thing about that is, it highlighted another thing about Toowoomba, which was a place where churches and faith groups really work together. If you ask me it's probably in part why I think Toowoomba has been a really big success in the welcoming-ness, if that's a word, of refugees, of people. There's community groups that are really strong working together. Can you talk a bit about that and how that may have--

Rachael: I think Toowoomba tries really hard to have those faith-based organizations work together.

Tim: It's not an easy task.

Rachael: No, it's not easy, and it's not perfect, but yes.

Tim: We all have our opinions and our ways that we believe and things like that.

Rachael: The council has been really supportive of that as well, and really encouraged the churches to get involved with helping out the refugees. There's churches doing English classes, counseling, that sort of thing. They really do well in welcoming. They're some of our biggest supporters too at youBelong.

Tim: Totally. In so many ways, and resources, and volunteers, and in ways that-- It's so exciting to get to work with people from all backgrounds and various churches. 

I want to take you back to that time where we first met. I had just moved back with my family from living in Northern Iraq. We were helping and serving with an NGO over there that was working with, in particular, Yazidi families, those that have fled from ISIS. We were providing semi-permanent housing, we'd built what we'd call micro refugee camps or villages, partly providing trauma care for them. We were involved in education, and a lot of different things, we'd come back. I was pretty despondent at the time because I really wanted to still be there.

My wife was pregnant with our fourth child, but I remember finding out that Yazidi families were being resettled in Australia. In particular, in this town, Toowoomba, it was a three hour from me, and I reached out. I'd actually gone up to Toowoomba to meet with the Catholic leader there at the time. He was really instrumental in trying to push for Toowoomba being a welcome zone for refugees.

Actually, I met with him for like 10 minutes and he told me to go down to Multicultural Australia. I did this trip. I didn't get to meet you. I called a bunch of people and didn't really get very far, but I put it on Facebook, I think. Then I get this message from this sweet old lady, Barbara Bluett.

Rachael: Barbara. She's the sweetest.

Tim: She goes, "Oh, I visit families all the time. You should come with me." Sure enough, I think the next week I jumped in my car and drove back up to Toowoomba and went to this lovely family that had just arrived, that had a couple of little children. I think she was pregnant at the time, and we sat in their home, and sure enough, Rachael.

Rachael: [laughs] Barb rang me too.

Tim: That was the beginning.

Rachael: That was definitely the beginning. I was visiting families outside of work time because that's what they cried out for.

Tim: Because that's what you do.

Rachael: [laughs] They just wanted you to come and have a meal with them, to sit down with them, and have a chat. Barb, [crosstalk].

Tim: You weren't on the job when we met. Part of me felt like you actually were on the job.

Rachael: No. I wasn't on the job. I was just hanging out. [laughs] That was the beginning. Then we hung out for a few Fridays after that, didn't we, for a fair while?

Tim: Yes. That was it. We just came up. I would bring some friends, and we'd just sit, and we'd just listen. We'd just talk to some families. Of course, they do well and bring out amazing food. Part of me was just coming just so that I can taste, and try, and hopefully, keep my very limited Kurdish that I'd picked up along the way and just be amongst this just wonderful families. You could feel the pain, right?

Rachael: Yes. It's always warm and welcoming when you visit but you can't see and feel the underlying pain.

Tim: Gosh, they're brave, aren't they?

Rachael: Yes.

Tim: It makes you think when you're sitting with them. Finally, we really knew and we would try to hear some of their stories, but if only we really knew.

Rachael: Yes, I think they protect us a lot with what they actually tell us.

Tim: Have gone through.

Rachael: Yes.

Tim: And are still going through, right? A lot of them have left their families behind, they got a visa, but they've got brothers and sisters or parents-

Rachael: Wives.

Tim: -wives, still waiting for a visa to hopefully come and be rejoined as families. We still hear in the news a lot of fighting still going on in many of the regions they're from in particular Rojava area of Syria and so, to be here and still have to deal with, "How's my family, did they survive that last bomb blast that happened in that region?" I don't think we can truly-

Rachael: Understand it.

Tim: -understand it. We met and we started obviously talking about-- I don't even know how it began. It's like this merging of all these mediums, but it was like, "We can do something about this, can't we?"

Rachael: Yes, for sure. That's where our first picnic sprung from, wasn't it?

Tim: It did, right.

Rachael: That was one of our first steps, get some people together, get some locals together, and provide a space for them to hang out.

Tim: Isn't that crazy how it all began, just by let's just replicate a picnic-

Rachael: That's right, yes.

Tim: -that they would have in the springtime in particular and how we would celebrate as well? I think we had a bunch of friends from the Sunshine Coast that came up. We're the first people to really push for this idea of, "Let's get some school kids at a school on the Sunshine Coast." They came up and ran some games. It was just a lot of fun really, wasn't it?

Rachael: Yes, it was a lot of fun, yes. Some dancing-

Tim: Yes, go to bush dancing.

Rachael: [crosstalk] bush dancing? Some Kurdish dancing, we were a little bit unco--

Tim: Uncoordinated to say the least and I think maybe a little like, how do we hold another man's pinky-

Rachael: [chuckles] Yes, that's right.

Tim: -and jump up and down and--

Rachael: Get those shoulders going, how do they do that?

Tim: They've got some fancy shoulder and foot moves, don't they?

Rachael: Yes, they do.

Rachael: Oh my gosh.

Rachael: But they can't do the bush dance either, so that comes out even.

Tim: Totally. Probably because they have too much rhythm for a bush dance like, "Why am I doing this step forward, back?" It's so, I don't know, regimental, isn't it?

Rachael: Yes, it is.

Tim: Anyway but oh, well. It was so much fun though and that was the fun. It's like the new experience, the awkwardness of trying something new, getting a bit uncomfortable and I love those first few picnics that we ran and were a tremendous success and I think got the ball rolling as we started, but what else can we do? How else can we really launch in and make an even bigger difference in this community that was by this point, I think by like 2018, how many were coming to Toowoomba?

Rachael: Since mid-2017, we've had about 2000 through Multicultural Australia, but then there's been families move up from Wagga Wagga and Coffs Harbor to join their families so-- Goodness knows.

Tim: Toowoomba is like a popular spot?

Rachael: Yes, it's the best. We won’t tell anyone that though. [laughs] They want to near. That's their whole culture, being near their family and there's a lot of families, so--

Tim: youBelong has been established for a few years now, what would you say is-- Why does it exist?

Rachael: Why?

Tim: Yes, what's the why behind youBelong Australia?

Rachael: I guess the why is to see the refugees thriving in Australia, they find belonging here, they find purpose here and youBelong wants to help them along that journey because they can't do that themselves when they don't have the language and don't know the systems and stuff like that. I'd say we exist to promote that social cohesion between the two cultures, not just Yazidi cultures, but any cultures or any refugees coming into Australia.

Tim: Yes, gosh, we've so much to learn from them, right?

Rachael: Yes.

Tim: We have so much to listen to. Their stories are so precious and so valuable and can truly inform us and help us grow. When I say us, I don't even mean to create an us and them, it's a we-ness, isn't it? We are so different and come from so many different-- We're complicated people, we come from so many different upbrings and backgrounds. I think to celebrate that and to emphasize that is, would you say a real core part of why we do what we do?

Rachael: Yes. Culture just brings so many differences, doesn't it?

Tim: Yes.

Rachael: I've found it so frustrating to work on the refugees time frame, but [laughs] it's definitely taught me to take a step back and relax a little and take my time, sit down and have that cup of tea and that chat rather than-- I know I can be pretty task-focused. Sometimes I've had to just let that go and just sit down and talk and have another chai. 

Tim: When it comes to the values of youBelong, we started out, I think, with a whole list of Ls I think we're trying to be fancy. It's listening, learning, genuinely loving without an agenda, and I feel like it really has to be said without an agenda. There's no end goal to me coming and spending time with you and listening to you, learning from you. I want you to feel that sense of, "You're important, you're loved, you're accepted, you belong," right?

Rachael: Yes.

Tim: I think that's definitely a core part of why-

Rachael: Yes, for sure.

Tim: - we exist. I remember even trying to come up with this name, I remember just sitting in my office and I had this whiteboard and I just write down all the different words of what I would want this new charity that I felt so burdened to begin to help these refugee families to integrate, to become part of society here.

I couldn't get away from this word of belongingness, belongingness, but I didn't just want it to just be-- I wanted it to be a statement that told them right to the core of who they are, a truth about themselves is that you belong. When people heard it, it was like, "Who doesn't want to hear that?" Right?

Rachael: Yes, that's right.

Tim: When they're feeling they're in a foreign land, there's nothing familiar about where they're living, there are so many things going on, who doesn't want to hear the fact that, "I belong here, this is my home, I'm not an outsider in this community. I'm valued, I'm a part of this community." Really for me, that's the birth of even the name, youBelong Australia.

Rachael: That's a good name. Good work.

Tim: Yes, well--

Rachael: It's amazing. [laughs]

Tim: I say so myself. The why, how do we do that? What are some of the ways that we really go about actually focusing on that because there are a lot of incredible other organizations? There's the government agencies, and there's Multicultural Australia, there's

Rachael: TRAMS.

Tim: TRAMS. There are so many different agencies that have very specified roles and we don't need to be stepping on their toes or riding in their lane. We have a focus of how we do what we do. What's our niche, what's our focus, and how do we go about doing that?

Rachael: We have the opportunity to just sit and listen and that's a big focus. We provide English class, but the focus around that is that you're making a relationship with a local. We have as many locals along as we do the refugees so that they can break off and actually get to know each other, actually get to make a connection, and hopefully your relationship--

Tim: Is that why they're called friendship? Even the name is--

Rachael: Well, I think the name's an evolving thing. We call it conversation, friendship classes, but so many of those locals are now going into those refugees' homes and having meals with them or tea with them just as a result of hanging out together in the English class. They felt confident enough and comfortable enough to then take it outside of the English class.

I think that's a big thing for us locals sometimes is to feel-- It does take bravery to take that step to go in somewhere where you don't necessarily speak the language or you might have a little bit. Sometimes that ends up in awkward silences, mistaken messages portrayed, and all sorts of things.

Tim: Totally. It can be so awkward at times. Can we talk about anything else? I feel like you're at this crossroads, but goodness me like you said, it's just being there. They feel it, they know it.

Rachael: That you could take the time out of your day.

Tim: That you'd actually come.

Rachael: Yes, and want to be with them.

Tim: It's this emphasis on relationship. It's this emphasis on helping them to socially integrate because there's some incredible initiatives by the government and by agencies to help them learn the ropes, how to navigate Centrelink which is like the welfare support system that helps them when they first get here or navigating school or navigating-- They give them English classes at a community college or a TAFE what they call it here, but it's sometimes just really difficult for them to go into those institutional places to learn.

What they really need is if there's a friend, if there's someone that would just sit with them and be in relationship, they'll learn the language better. Right?

Rachael: Absolutely.

Tim: They can feel connected with somebody, a family, or someone that will come visit them. That's I guess where we're trying to focus on that. How can we socially help them connect? Because if they can connect socially, they're going to build their networks, they might even find it easy to get a job because they know somebody in the community.

Rachael: Then it avoids that this culture and that culture. I really hope that they can keep their culture of course, but if they can integrate and be able to socialize with Australians, it makes for a better city. If we're all working together and not divided by culture and race, and that sort of thing.

Tim: Hundred percent. One of the things I've loved about living overseas and moving into other cultures is learning their culture, learning their food, and their way of doing things, but I can assure you when we're at home in my house in Northern Iraq, we certainly made sure we made our nice chicken and pasta dishes, and there was only so much biryani and kufta and all that local cuisine we could eat, but that's the beauty of it.

It's just celebrating each other, laughing at how crazy different we are. I married an American so we're forever bagging each other's cultures, and trying to up one each other, but that's part of the whole experience, isn't it?

Rachael: It's very interesting. There's some things you can love and some things you can hate, and just trying to find the middle ground [crosstalk].

Tim: That's okay, right?

Rachael: Yes, absolutely.

Tim: My wife Sarah used to say-- She'd always make fun of me, "It's so weird that you do this." I'm like, "Weird?" It's like, "Maybe it's just different," I would tell her, but I'd catch myself saying the same thing to her about some other silly issue. I'd say, "What? It's so silly that you do that." She's like, "Silly?" But anyways.

Rachael: It's just difficult, that's right.

Tim: That's the beautiful thing about Australia. It is a land of truly multicultural integration, it's done a great job. We have challenging times right now, there's a lot going on around the world, and there's a lot of people that need refuge and help. In the past, we've been that place of welcoming, and hopefully, we can continue to be that.

Rachael: Yes, I hope so. It depends on the borders, doesn't it? Whether they'll open up and when they'll open up.

Tim: I know. You think about all those families that were lined up to get on the next flight out to Australia.

Rachael: Their visas have an expiry date so they have to--

Tim: Reapply again. Gosh if only we knew the process that people went through to get a humanitarian visa, the years and years they wait in a refugee camp, and many times just living in a tent, having lost everything, family members. It's too hard to comprehend really. What have been some of the challenges? Can you think of any specific challenges that there are in maybe even just starting a charity and getting it off the road or just the challenges of just the role itself?

Rachael: Starting a charity is probably really hard, but then you add this language barrier, that you're starting a charity where you're working with people who speak a different language, that's tricky, and who have different-- Their time. When their yes means yes, no means no. Different cultural-- I don't know what you call it.

Tim: Values.

Rachael: Values. Thank you, that's the word I wanted. Just working with those barriers. There's definitely barriers with other people and other organizations I guess. Toowoomba does work really well together, but I guess there's other barriers where we've had problems where people might think you're stepping on their toes.

Tim: Well, they're just curious what's your agenda. Maybe they're a bit suspicious, and you're like, "Ah."

Rachael: Actually, we're just trying to serve the same people.

Tim: But that's the reality. You're going to get that, right? You're going to get misunderstood.

Rachael: Oh yes, absolutely.

Tim: Especially in working in these issues, injustices. People think, "Why are you doing this when you should be helping these people?" Have you navigated those misunderstandings? You've done so well leading youBelong.

Rachael: A lot of networking.

Tim: A lot of networking?

Rachael: Yes, absolutely. A lot of networking, and just having conversations like this with people, and talking about what you're doing. Even trying to be involved not necessarily in someone else's project, but just in working together, what can you do to get that-

Tim: how can you help, right?

Rachael: Yes, exactly.

Tim: That's one thing I love about you Rach. Every time I come up to see you, it seems like you really are the mayor of Toowoomba. You know everybody, you're a socialite. It truly is incredible to see you work your magic. When I come up there, I'm like, "Okay I'd like to meet this person," like or, "I'd like to hang out with this family or learn to get to know this organization."

Lo and behold, I get up there and my day is packed because you've been able to set up all these incredible meetings with people, and you do that whilst being a mother of three, working still. You're still working?

Rachael: I am still working. Yes, but I don't know, we'll see.

Tim: You don't call it work so much because it's nursing, right?

Rachael: Yes, that's right. It doesn't feel like work a lot of the time, I love what I do so.

Tim: There's only so many hours in the day, right?

Rachael: That's right, and I'm learning that good things can be the enemy of great things so you can't do too many good things if it's taking away from your work of awesome things.

Tim: I think I may hear that.

Rachael: Yes. We'll see where that [crosstalk]--

Tim: How you do it all, it blows my mind. I feel like I have to tell you most of the time, "All right Rach, how are you doing?" You're not in taking off too much than you can handle, but you've such an inspiration in that way. You find it so hard to say no in helping people because you've such a huge heart, you've got the biggest heart. I'm so grateful that you're leading the charge for youBelong and really raising up so many more volunteers. There's a fair few coming through the ranks that are joining on.

Rachael: Yes. We've got some great volunteers, they do an amazing job. They've grown so much to it. There's one lady in particular who I think of. She would help behind the scenes. At picnics, she would be in there, cutting up the food and whatnot, but actually put her out to talk to the refugees was just not her cup of tea.

She goes now into a refugee's home with her husband every single week, and she is just loving it. That was a really big step for her to go from helping in the background to then actually interacting with this person who has very limited English. She's really lapping it up. I think that's amazing how much she's grown in that area and that now she's got the courage to go and do that with someone by aside her husband. It's a team effort, which is good.

Tim: It's incredible. She's one of so many of them. Obviously we are indebted to the many. The refugee community itself that stepped up and volunteer and serve.

Rachael: They're always the first to volunteer.

Tim: They are.

Rachael: They're there. Any job so they’ll drive or they'll cut up or they'll be up there dancing and interpreting..

Tim: Playing music. What other way does youBelong try and fulfill its role and initiatives that they got going?

Rachael: Yes. We do English classes I mentioned before, and there are welcome picnics. They're really to serve the local community as well and provide a safe space for them to be able to connect. Then we do the grow and rehabilitation program as well for people who've suffered through torture or tragedy, circumstances.

Tim: Which is pretty much most refugees. They have pretty much either lost all their home or friends or family or loved ones.

Rachael: Just a big thing in their life. Without all of that moving to Australia is big enough, right? That's something you could have a little bit of support with. We do that.

Tim: To the groups, right?

Rachael: Yes, groups.

Tim: Into group session.

Rachael: Women and men are in separate groups because that seems to work well for their culture and they go through a eight-week course. It teaches about gratefulness and forgiveness and hope and courage and that sort of thing. I would think it's like a well-being workshop. Just reminding your mind about the things that are important as you grow through those experiences, rather than just going back to normal or even declining in your general well-being.

Tim: Totally. It is remarkable how resilient those that have found their way to Australia, these incredible families individuals are to just have made it this far is a testimony to their incredible resiliency. To be able to then help them grow and thrive as they make Australia their home in this way, and do it together in a group, I think that's the fun part too, as well. It's not like you're trying to give anyone a stigma of that. They've got mental health issues, and you need to get intense counseling.

There are those people that really do need specific care and acute care and there's resources in the community for that. Hopefully these programs like GROW can be a place where it can prevent people from declining. It actually gets them on a trajectory where they grind through their trauma, they grind through their tragedy, and that's possible. That's the goal of that course which is a pretty exciting little program that we got going there.

Rachael: It had to stop because of COVID for a term or so but we're looking forward to starting up again in a few weeks which is awesome.

Tim: That's right. Even the welcome picnics and things like that? I've been impressed at how active you've still remained over the lockdown period with the coronavirus. Just the family house to house visits that you maintain and it's almost breathing fresh life into what those programs have been about and even the English classes. It's been really exciting to see how it's opened new doors of engagement and with these families, well done.

Rachael: Really much more intimate engagement too which is really nice.

Tim: Yes, exactly right. The one-on-one, as opposed to big group class, has been.

Rachael: People have been forced to make a relationship which is nice.

Tim: Let's get a little-- How have you grown personally over these last couple of years? It's a journey.

Rachael: Absolutely. I wasn't anti refugees or anything before I started working with them, but I would say I was pretty ignorant towards their journeys and what they receive when they get here. I was neither here nor there about it. I've learned a lot about how they come to Australia, about their settlement journey here.

That's been a big growing experience. It's made me think about my preconceived ideas about a lot of things, not just refugees, but it's actually opened my eyes to a lot of different social matters in the world. I've definitely grown in that area. You make be coming to podcasts and stuff, which is not my thing.

Tim: You're a hot sought after speaker-

Rachael: Yes, that's it.

Tim: -at events and you've been on radio shows. Don't just blame me for that.

Rachael: It's not just Tim's fault.

Tim: You are. You're learning to really-- You obviously model and lead the youBelong team well, but I think you do have a voice that people need to hear.

Rachael: I had to learn how to let that voice out really. This is not particularly my natural thing. How else have I grown? I think we touched on before how too many good things can be the enemy of a great thing. It's been a big journey for me to really balance my life and know when to say no. I think I've learned part of that from refugees. Just being with them and seeing how they live their life and what takes priority for them and family and relationships take priority.

Tim: A hundred percent.

Rachael: That's been a big lesson for me. It's been a big journey.

Tim: It's hard because being involved in a charity, and there's always limited resources, there's always limited money. The ability to do what we do really has been with those limitations in place is a huge challenge. You always want to do more.

Rachael: Yes, and we could do more.

Tim: We could do more.

Rachael: Space.

Tim: We don't even have obviously our own space out there and there's so many ways-- We want to do more. One of the things I love though is it's never stopped you from getting creative and finding ways to do more with what we have. Obviously, there's probably many times that I would be like, "Hey Rachael. Don't worry. It'll get there. When it gets there we'll grow when the time's right."

I'm pretty much telling myself that because I'm feeling the weight, or you want to go in, but you're feeling the weight of like, "Is this plane going to take off?" Are just going to get to the edge of the cliff and it's just going to be crash and burn. Your mind can do crazy tricks on you with that, right?

Rachael: Even now are were doing the right thing? Are we making a difference? We definitely are.

Tim: Get some opposition and you feel like, "What do we do?"

Rachael: It's hard to deal with that in your own head. I think our own head most of the time that's--

Tim: A 100% it is our own head because I think you're proving it, you're proving that we can provide a place where people from all backgrounds can come and be a part of making a difference in these family's lives. When we think about making difference like you said, you in the process of helping, of lunch of going, getting uncomfortable how much is your life impacted yourself?

How much do you actually grow in the process and change and become aware, "Oh my gosh. This is how I was thinking about this, how things have changed now that I've had the opportunity." You get up close and personal, hear some stories.

Rachael: Or even how much you didn't think. What we didn't know or for me personally, I can't believe I didn't know some of the things and some of the things we should be fighting for. There's so many people in our community who need someone to come alongside them and support them and love them like we're doing.

Tim: This is a backyard thing. This isn't like We're not trying to solve world hunger in Africa. This is something that is our neighbors. These people right here right now that we can love them well. We can make an incredible difference in their lives. I think that's definitely a good reminder, right?

Rachael: Yes, that's right.

Tim: We'd have to go far.

Rachael: That's right. They're here in Australia, they're safe but they're still so vulnerable in so many different areas and can lead to isolation and all sorts of things. If we can be making a difference, that's a big deal.

Tim: Are there any particular experiences that have helped you I think particular of one recent trip you took last year?

Rachael: Yes. I went to Iraq.

Tim: That's pretty brave of you.

Rachael: We went to the Kurdistan regions. I don't think I could actually go into Iraq. The rest of the--

Tim: You needed another visa for that.

Rachael: That was okay because that's just when something was happening in Iraq about-- they were taking their phones off them at that time. They were taking the internet off them and there were riots and all things happening.

Tim: Especially in the southern part of Iraq. They were trying to get rid of the president at the time or the Prime Minister at the time.

Rachael: Something and we were safe in the Kurdistan Region.

Tim: Which is not unusual. Something hugely volatile was happening in the region. You were there?

Rachael: Yes, learned a lot about the culture just by being in it. I think it made me realize to how much coming back I just didn't know. We need to learn more. We need to understand a culture nearly before we can help or is that the word before we can support. I've got to just experience the refugee camps. I guess that gives you a little bit of an idea of the pain, that and why people are suffering from survivor's guilt when they're here safe in Australia, but their families are still back in Iraq.

I think that just opens your eyes to that and makes you realize what they're actually going through and what they've been through. The ones that are here in Australia just have a little bit of understanding and I mean just a tiny bit of understanding of what they've been through and what they've had to overcome to get here. It was eye-opening trip, got to experience grow in the refugee camps as well the-

Tim: It being run there.

Rachael: -program. That was pretty awesome. I think it was awesome to see it, the program working really well over there because I guess we've had some barriers in here getting it going here in Australia for the first time ever. I guess it was just reinforcing the need and how great a program it really is.

Tim: Iraq is obviously your most recent trip but you took another-- I didn't know this. I found out that you went to--

Rachael: I went to India.

Tim: Yes, to India and it had an interesting experience there while you were there.

Rachael: You know the crazy trains with a gazillion people on them and we were taking a very long trip. We had to go to the toilet. I think all of us girls we really didn't want to go to the toilet on the train but we had to in the end.

Tim: Why not?

Rachael: Well, why not? Because you get locked in those toilets.

Tim: Are you kidding me?

Rachael: I think I don't know. It felt like an hour but I'm sure it was a few minutes.

Tim: You got locked in a toilet-

Rachael: -in the toilet.

Tim: -on a rickety old train in the middle of India.

Rachael: You know where you see the train lines through the toilet because that's normal. I banged on that door a lot and I don't think anybody heard me.

Tim: That's so bizarre because there's so many people on the train. There were probably these crazy things are happening on those trains so you never know there are probably going out.

Rachael: I was speaking English maybe who knows what they were thinking.

Tim: Oh my God. Maybe it was a big practical joke on you. They were always laughing.

[laughter]

Rachael: Maybe. It's a conspiracy. It was really easy getting out in the end. It was just one of those. It was just where I was holding my tongue.

Tim: You got yourself out.

Rachael: I got myself out. That whole entire time I was freaking out and I got myself out just by wiggling. I don't even remember how.

Tim: You're crazy.

Rachael: That's scary.

Tim: When was that trip?

Rachael: Oh, 1998. A long time ago. I was in school and I went on a trip with teen missions International. Going to Leprosy Mission Hospital.

Tim: Obviously, this has been a real part of who you are as a person, wanting to serve.

Rachael: I've always been curious about other cultures and other people, I guess. Always go for the person in the room who hasn't got a friend. I don't know whether that's my personality. This is a wise way of being.

Tim: That explains why you came out as an enneagram, too, right?

Rachael: Yes.

Tim: For people that might be listening in it, the enneagram is a personality typing tool. It's very well-known in the States, but in Australia, anytime I've brought it up with people, they think I'm into some weird personality thing and freaks them out. The enneagram tool is a helper, a giver, very socially, and relationally focused.

In fact, probably one of the most of the personality types if that's what you want to call it. It certainly reflects in the way you do definitely make those that probably are on the out, really feel like they're valued and important. It's been incredibly wonderful having you share your heart on this podcast.

Rachael: Thanks for having me.

Tim: I think your voice truly is important. I think I'm so grateful for the way you've dedicated and lead the youBelong team. What is one thing you would want those listening maybe even Australians, particularly, as it relates to refugees, migrants, those that are trying to find a place home here in Australia? Asylum seekers… it could be, what is it culturally and linguistically diverse people?

Rachael: Diverse. That's right.

Tim: What's the one thing you would want to share?

Rachael: What would I want to share? We don't know each other's stories. They can be so much pain, but so much joy as well. I think what I'd love to see more people do is to lean in, as you say, and get to know someone, even if it's just one person, and now feel what that will do for that person will move mountains for that person in helping them feel like they are valued and that they belong here. I think that's probably the biggest thing to just take a small step and say hi, and see where it goes.

Tim: Well, it's doable. I love that. It's something that we can all do. You've seen time and time again, people take that step getting uncomfortable. You've got story after story of how that's made a difference. You're making a great difference Rachael. You're inspiring so many people to do that. I've got one last question for you, which I ask all my guests which is really the heart behind this podcast show. It's why does justice matter to you?

Rachael: I don't think anyone deserves to journey alone through any tragedy but joys as well. That's why it's important for me because I just don't want to see anyone. I'm thinking that they have to journey it alone or actually journey it alone. That's probably the biggest thing for me. Of course, the divide. Then what divides us I think there's culture, race, religion. They shouldn't be divisions. Everyone, we're all human being and we all deserve to be here. We all deserve a chance at life and a chance to flourish at life.

Tim: Awesome. Well, we're in this together. Thank you so much, Rachael. You're the best.

Rachael: No worries. You're the best Tim.

Tim: So much fun just catching up. You made the trip all the way from Toowoomba.

Rachael: Oh, Yes. It's so worthwhile.

Tim: Family vacation, but I'm so glad that we can catch up in person. We don't get to see each other nearly as often as we'd like to.

Rachael: No.

Tim: Thanks for coming on in great.

Rachael: No worries. Thanks, Tim.

Tim: You got it.

[01:01:41] [END OF AUDIO]