Episode 23: Nice Coffee — Social Coffee Tackling Poverty in the Slums of Nairobi
I was joined in the studio with Jim Chapman & Sandy Hickson, co-founders of The Nice Coffee Co., with all profits of this growing Social Enterprise going to St John's primary school in the Kibera slum in Nairobi. The company uses ethically sourced Kenyan coffee to supply beans-and-machine packages to offices and companies that want to have a positive social impact.
St Johns School is located in the heart of the Kibera slum (Kenya) - the largest slum in Africa! It's roughly the size of NY Central Park and is home to almost 1 million people. St. John's primary school was started by Josiah Munyutu in 2002, with the aim of helping the orphans, street children, and the poor. It now has over 400 students.
We talked about the inspiration that fueled these young university students to start Nice Coffee Co. We also discussed how running a social enterprise means you don't need to compete for the limited pool of donation support.
Jim shared why his Dad was his hero, Sandy reeled off a dozen of his favourite quotes, and I challenged them to join the upcoming Bike to Belong campaign to bike 80kms for the 80 million displaced in our world today. we all shared honestly about our setbacks, failures and the importance of backing yourself and bringing a fresh perspective to every challenge you face.
These guys are on to something great & you're gonna learn so much from their amazing journey.
You can order your own bag of coffee and try it for yourself by visiting Nice Coffee Co. You can also follow Nice Coffee on social media here — Facebook & Instagram. Jim can be found on LinkedIn here & likewise, Sandy here.
Learn more about Justice Matters — justicematters.tv
Support the show — patreon.com/justicematters
Full Transcript
Sandy Hickson
You're not just asking for handouts. You're saying, We've got this brilliant product. And we're also having this incredible impact. I think that's, that's what's really exciting about social enterprise. And I think we said this before the way we were kind of envisaging it is Australians only donate a certain amount per year. There's this kind of finite amount of cash that's donated to different causes every year. And I think social enterprises have the opportunity to increase that pool independently. So you're not just taking donations from some other charity, actually increasing the size of the game donated.
Tim Buxton
Welcome back to the podcast. Today we had in the studio, I had a great time chatting with a couple of young entrepreneurs, Jim and Sandy are the founders of nice coffee. This is an incredible social enterprise, really, with a passion to help inspire education amongst some of Kenya's poorest and most disadvantaged, young children. They work and partner with a school in the slums of Chavira. And you get to hear a lot about that story. But in order to do that, they founded a coffee business. And this coffee business is primarily a roastery that started out servicing small to medium sized businesses. But like a lot of people when COVID hit, they had to pivot. And they now actually have a delivery van, actually a van that that goes out and provides coffee as well as a delivery service for people at home to make sure they're stocked up while they're working at home. On some good Java. Guys, I had a great time chatting with them. And we really honed in I think on the why, you know, if you've got a really strong why a passionate reason why you want to make a social impact. You want to see justice in this world, then you'll make a way. And these guys have done just that. I know their story will inspire you. And without further ado, here's my conversation with Jim and Sandy from nice.
Tim Buxton
Jim, Sandy, thanks for coming into the studio. Here on the Gold Coast. Yeah. Thanks for having us.
Sandy Hickson
Appreciate the opportunity.
Tim Buxton
Awesome, man. And you bought me some lovely coffee pods from your Coffee Company. But you're you're primarily a roaster, the nice Coffee Company, social enterprise. I'm reading it what it says on your shirt here it says social coffee. Tackling proper poverty. My you're not property No. Poverty. I haven't gotten into that game quite yet. We're looking. So tell me a bit about who you are. Give us the snapshot. And yeah, yeah.
Jim Chapman
I'll kick it off. Sandy. So yeah, I think like this all started, probably dial it back to 2007 when my parents decided to to move over to Africa, and they started a business over there. I think, yeah, we first went on a holiday. And I remember having my seventh birthday in Nairobi, you know, overlooking the National Park. And just yeah, incredible. Looking over giraffe and Rhino. And then, yeah, it was a year later, I think dad became involved in in a few school projects over there through a think of Byron Bay charity. And so he went back without a family. And then yeah, a year later, he comes back to Australia. And literally, without telling us. He... I remember we were having lunch somewhere and he tells a family that had bought a property over there. And I think mom was in tears. And he just tells the whole family. Yeah. It was one of those weird bizarre things. I sometimes call it maybe a midlife crisis. Yeah. But yeah, it's definitely changed our lives. Dad wasn't too sure what to do with the property at the start, but it was like prime prime location right on the national park in Nairobi. And so the obvious thing was to turn it into a safari Lodge. Now, my parents, obviously they have no experience in tourism. You know, In Australia, let alone Kenya. They're just, you know, farmers. I grew up on a farm, just down in New South Wales. So this was a big, big move. And it turns out Mum, now mum absolutely loves it. It's a passion. Yeah, she, it's her pride and joy, the lodge. But yeah, I guess over the years, you know, as it turned into a sapphire Lodge, it took a lot longer than expected, you know, Kenyan politics, or that we did become more and more involved with the school projects, and in particular, this school in Kibera slum. And that was through another Australian charity. But unfortunately, I think it was 2012 this charity pulled out of the school. think it was, um, you know, funding reasons. Not sure. But my dad kind of, you know, he stepped in and took it as his his project. And yeah, I guess when, when people ask me, like, why social enterprise? Why? You know, why this school? It really is, I guess, my dad, and in his kind of inspiration, he's probably, you know, he, you probably wouldn't know what social enterprise is. But he's probably the greatest social entrepreneur that I know. You know, ever since moving to Kenya has just been involved in so many different projects, whether it be you know, Lion conservation. Yeah, this school, treating infections with teatree, which is what we, we used to go down in New South Wales. Yeah, all these different projects. And that's what's really inspired me to get involved and take this on, take this school on. And starting Nice Coffee Co as the means to do that. Yeah.
Tim Buxton
And as you've grown, you've brought along, friends for the ride. Friends you've known for a long time. Yeah.
Sandy Hickson
So Jim and I, we met in, in high school. Yeah. And I didn't realize like we became friends. And I, at least I hope we do. I think we did. And one day, it was free dress day. And Jim was wearing the Kenyan Rugby Sevens, Jersey. And like, I always used to so I grew up for the first like, four years of my life in Kenya, and kind of always wears a lot like loved and like, always planned to go back to Kenya and yeah, there eventually. And Jim was wearing this, like, Kenyan Rugby Sevens, Jersey. And so I was like, What on earth? is this? Like, how does this guy even know about Kenya? Then he told me, so we're already friends. He told me the story about how his his dad just offered the whole family and took them over to Kenya when he was seven. And, and it wasn't long after that, that that I'd wasted my way in and managed to get a flight over to Kenya and I went and lived with with the Chapman's over there for a month. over Christmas. It must be near 10. Hmm. And, and that's, that's when I first went into into the school in the middle of Kibera slum, which is the largest slum slum in Africa. It's it's ginormous, about a million people, but they don't actually know how many people in there. And the government kind of refuses to accept it as a as a dwelling. faithful. Yeah. Yeah.
Jim Chapman
Yeah. So that's how we first met. And then, um, you know, I kicked it off. And I think six months in, I realized, you know, I can't do this alone. Way more fun and to bring people on board. So Sandy, and Nathaniel, another good friend, came on board. And we kind of took this on full pace.
Tim Buxton
Yeah. I love that we have spent, you know, all this time up to this point, talking about why and what has driven you to do what you do. Because, you know, I've known what it's like to start something and unless you really know why and what you're passionate about. You'll you'll get a certain long ways down the track and you'll hit an obstacle or there'll be a challenge here and there. And you'll be tempted to, to kind of think, well, maybe it's not meant to be now i'd love to just hear what is what is the means what is the method to what is the the Coffee Company side of things that actually you've kind of latched on to to actually, you know, be a means of support to this incredible work in Nairobi?
Jim Chapman
Yeah, I think I first heard about this idea of, of social enterprise, it was at university. So I'm studying a Bachelor of Business and Commerce. Still am, and, you know, spending all this time in class in the lectures learning about lack, you know, profit maximization, you know, across the board in business, whether it be accounting, economics, you know, management, it's all about maximizing the profit of our shareholders, you know, biggest margins, you know, that sort of thing. I couldn't help but contrast this lack. Because every few months, as I was heading back over to Kenya, in you know, you can't help but contrast these two, bizarre, crazy worlds. You know, like, I was so privileged with my education, and I guess, our high school education, and then going into the school for the first time, it's just lack. It's just the other end of the spectrum. You know, I couldn't compare it to any anything else I've ever seen, you know, kids with, like, absolutely nothing. And yet holding on to this, this primary education as their, their one thing of hope that could potentially get them, you know, out of this crazy cycle of poverty. So I'm coming back and forth between Australia and Kenya. And, you know, learning about maximizing profit for our shareholders, something just didn't really sit right with me. It didn't quite make sense. And then we actually had a guest speaker come in. And he was he was, I think it was West African. And he started a social enterprise. And this is when that, you know, this kind of field is just starting to kick off. Yeah. And, and he started one in West Africa. And he said, You know, he couldn't promote it enough, he couldn't encourage us to start something that that is more aligned towards social and environmental impact, you know, impact instead of just the traditional profit maximizing path. And that really resonated with me. And so did a bit of research. I looked into it, and the first thing that comes up social enterprise, Australia, is "Thank You". You know, and I think we all kind of idolized them a bit. They're, um, they're incredible leaders in this space in Australia. And I was fascinated by the idea of using products, you know, that people are already buying, or drinking, in our case, you know, every single day. Yeah. I think we drink in Australia, like 22 million cups a day or something ridiculous. Yeah. of coffee, or we love our coffee. Yeah, of course. And, so that that's kind of what, what gave me the idea. And yeah, coffee was that means I just just being on campus alone, students are drinking so many cups a day. And I thought now what a great medium. This could be.
Sandy Hickson
Yeah. And it coincides with, I think there's like, at the moment, especially in our generation, there's this huge hunger to be a conscious consumer. People, people want to become more sustainable. They want to, they want to be having an impact when they consume and when they buy a product. And it's incredible, because it holds all these companies accountable. And so I think it's it's kind of it's calling we've coincided with with that sort of time. And that's a that's a that's allowed us to have a lot of success. So far, for sure.
Tim Buxton
You know, it makes me think that there is this still this ability to it's not one or the other somehow, right? Like the traditional non for profit model can can just be just really hard to sustain itself. It just relies on just continual just giving and giving. But it's not built into a sense of, well, how can it sustain itself? Like it doesn't seem to be it's more like the handout mentality rather than the leg up right. And so, like, it's encouraging to see young guys like you just like launch into, we're still studying, we're still learning but why can't we start and get get the ball rolling at maximizing profit and social impact, like, like, it seems like a short term game to just focus on on the profit side, because when society is impacted negatively, just because pure profits like climate change, and we only have limited resources and we see the effects of that. It's not, it's going to come back to bite us in the end, isn't it? Right? Whereas if you can marry the two, you can probably help. Yeah, impact on both ends. I don't know if that I think,
Sandy Hickson
No, I think you've hit the nail on the head there, Tim, I think that's like why social enterprises is so effective or so promising for us. And that's why we like them. They're a lot more scalable. We feel and you're not just asking for handouts. You're saying, Well, we've got this brilliant product. And we're also having this incredible impact. And I think that's, that's what's really exciting about social enterprise. And I think we said this before the the way we were kind of envisaging it is Australians only donate a certain amount per year. So there's this kind of finite amount of cash that's donated to different causes every year. And I think social enterprises have the opportunity to increase that pool independently. So you're not just taking donations from some other charity, right? You're actually increasing the size of the pool that's getting donated and making an impact, which I think is really
Tim Buxton
Wow, that is really a great way to look at it.
Jim Chapman
Sandy does a lot of deep thinking at night.
Tim Buxton
And, and you're studying so we alluded to that your your study you mentioning out before we came in the studio studying research. Yeah.
Sandy Hickson
Yeah. Yeah. I'm doing genetics research. Yeah. So Jim and I are both still at uni. I'm at UQ. Yeah. James is at Bond doing business.Yeah. Yeah. Which is it's been a challenge juggling juggling has been incredibly rewarding.
Tim Buxton
Yeah. And you know, we've had social enterprises on the podcast already. I think we've had one of the first ones was James bottle from Outland Denim,
Sandy Hickson
That was an incredible interview,
Jim Chapman
and I just realized him wearing his um, his jeans
Tim Buxton
Hey, man, me too good. Yeah. get with the program. Didn't get the dress code for today's interview.
Sandy Hickson
Jim was lucky to get shoes on me this morning. We got we got halfway down here. And I realized I'd forgotten my shoes.
Tim Buxton
You can eat that you can you can be barefoot around here. No worries.
Sandy Hickson
Yeah, I got that vibe. I got that. Yeah.
Tim Buxton
So we've had, and I think it's, you know, we've had man to a sewing social enterprise on had the lecture of social enterprise, the guru herself. Dr. Ruth, Knight.
Sandy Hickson
And did you find that they are? There's this incredible before you were talking, I thought of this incredible quote. It was by Viktor Frankl in Man's Search for Meaning. And he says, "anyone with a why can withstand stand any how" And I think that that's often like the story with social enterprises. Yes, they find that their why, before they're there, how
Tim Buxton
Yes, you're gonna find a way one way or another?
Sandy Hickson
Yeah, yeah. And I think that's what you're, I think that's, that's what happened with with the school. And I'd be interested is that Do you think that's been happening with the other social enterprises that you've interviewed?
Tim Buxton
100% because each of them and I know them personally, and, and we talk and I lead a charity myself and, and, you know, so we can empathize and sympathize with the struggles. I mean, it is hard work and anyone that owns their own small business or is in the trenches, trying to make things happen, doesn't matter what how things look on the outside it, I mean, there's constantly roadblocks roadblocks to what you've got overcome. I mean, last year 2020 for everyone into a spin. And, you know, for many people in the world, it's still, you know, really challenging.
Sandy Hickson
And I think you're right, like you just need a way to, to get through that to push you through. I think Daniel Flynn, the founder of Thank You, otter has this incredible story of just being in in university and just like having this crippling like, like, guilt, about about all these kids having to cart water all the way back to their village like walking 20 Ks to get water, cutting it back. And then and and then having having people in the community dying of waterborne diseases like cholera and theory. Yeah. And I think I think everyone starts out with a y, which I think is incredibly interesting.
Tim Buxton
Yeah. And that why is often something that impacts you and touches you in a very personal real way. It's one thing to kind of, maybe watch a documentary and some people do and and that there is, you know, started watching a Four Corners documentary on the Uyghurs in Xinjiang. I think it is in China that are just some of the most persecuted people on this planet over a million imprisoned the most ever since the Holocaust. I mean, these things have just incredibly got wrenchingly, it just blows your mind what they're going through. And, again, for a lot of people, it seems distant when it's just a statistic, or it's something so far away, but when, when injustice or when, when something that just doesn't seem so right, intersects with your world, your family, it changes everything. If that's the moment, then that gets you
Sandy Hickson
Yeah, I think we just like incredibly lucky to. I mean, Jim had banned Islam before, but just like, as we were in year 10. And we're going into this, like, this slum, which, I mean, it's, it's hard to, it's hard to describe it in words, but it's, uh, you know, you walk over this bridge, and there's raw sewage, it's just a bridge over raw sewage, like a kind of wooden plank bridge. And then you're in this absolute maze of, it's like a, there's a canopy canopy of corrugated iron, that's like rusted. So you duck underneath this corrugated iron canopy. And it's all just mud walls built from just like a garbage heap. So like plastic bags packed into the mud walls. And it's, it's honestly, it's amazing. It's if we weren't being led in, we'd get completely lost. And we take in, I think, like, we saw the guys who aren't taking it in into their to get to the school, because you have to go through a few different gang territories. Yeah, imagine honestly, honestly. And this and so these guys are like, pistols kind of like at the ready. Yeah. And, and got us through. But like, the only thing the thing that was most reassuring, is just the principal of the school was with us. And it's just incredible. Seeing how the community responded, him, everyone just just had so much respect for him. And he he really is a boots on the ground ground there.
Jim Chapman
And I think, you're so right with being so close to the issue at hand. I guess one of our biggest challenges is that Africa seems like a world away to people here in Australia. Yeah. You know, we're pretty familiar with Asia, with with America, Europe, but Africa, you know, some people don't know, whether it's a country or continent, let alone You know, what's going on, you know, on the ground. And that's been a big challenge us trying to, you know, show people I have been so lucky with them, you know, visual media help with help from people like Jude Kalman Yeah, you know, carrying a film for us. Because when people see visually what it's like, it makes a huge, huge difference.
Tim Buxton
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Jim Chapman
We were actually on the Gold Coast here. We were pitching at an event. It's just like a startup business pitch. And we ended up we won the pitch.
Sandy Hickson
Yeah, we got the People's Choice Award.
Tim Buxton
I noticed you got a few you got a few awards, right you social entrepreneur finalists as well as their what was that award? You're talking about there?
Jim Chapman
Yeah, we recently awarded I think it was um, global changemakers award. I will change anything that's been announced yet, but
Tim Buxton
So do we need to edit that out. But yeah, man, that's awesome.
Jim Chapman
Cheers. But yeah, we met Jude at the end of the night. And she happened to be coming over to East Africa at the end of the year, and she said you know, if you can come over and meet us, we'll make a short film for your story for your for your school and for your company. Nice coffee co got back booked flights straightaway. Yeah, we took up on that offer. And wow, that she she joined us with a channel man. Reporter with Gold Coast photographer Whitney Palmer. And they they just helped us shape and tell our story. So well. Visually through through the short film. We've got a Whitney published a coffee table book. Oh my god give to us. I should have brought one I'm sorry. We give to all of our new clients and they can just, you know, leave it in there like waiting room for everyone to see. Yeah, sort of impact that the coffee's having.
Sandy Hickson
Yeah. And we wanted to show them the school. So we feel the camera, we took them into into Kibera slum and did the whole like, you know how to get the guards and the armed guards. And we got in there and it was just incredible. So you go through this like corrugated on jungle, yeah, and navigate the maze, and or opens out to the school and it's full of just like 400 like laughing smiling like beautifully, incredibly happy kids. And, and we got there and so we're doing kind of our filming for this short documentary. And, and Josiah the principal took us aside. And he was he he was obviously a bit disturbed.And he just he just had a meeting with a member of the government. And they were they were going to close the school down. And they'd already closed 100 other schools like, like St. JOHN schools down and Josiah was was destroyed. And we said surely surely there's a way we can get around this. And it's the only way is is to is to re.. like is to reroof the buildings because the the government officials excuse was was that the roofs were unsafe were really they just didn't want to pay. They are meant to fork out a bit of money to each primary school. And they didn't want to pay that. And, and so that kind of gave us the why so we had the reporter with us and we decided that We might as well stop this campaign to reroof and ended up being to rebuild a lot of the buildings at the school. So that was incredible. So we got back and from from Kenya, and we got on to the morning breakfast channels. And, and, and we told them that we starting this GoFundMe, and, and we needed, I think it was what was it was 30 grand at the time to redo all the roads, which is just incredible, like 30 grand wouldn't get you that far in Australia. No, but the permits Yeah. Were gonna like, yeah, pretty much reconstruct this whole school for 30 grand. And so we got on to today's show. And I remember driving back after the interview, it was a live interview. And and you get a notification every time you go to find me kind of gets gets a donation,
Jim Chapman
It was it was pinging off, I think we're at, like 10 grand before we hit the car. Yeah, yeah. And it was just like, a nice dopamine hit, I think I've ever received
Sandy Hickson
The most incredible thing and just to just to see all these other people just like sharing in your journey, and like, they're buying in, and there's just complete and utter trust. There's like trust in you that you'll that you'll deliver on on what you promise and just so much faith. And that was incredible. For us. That was like, okay, the Australian public, like still cares. Like, yeah. And yeah, I mean, that was just, like, such a beautiful experience. And that really kicked off our journey. That's where we were like, Okay, this is, this is serious. Like, they've trusted us. And now we have to deliver. And, and so that was like, that was all just Jude Kalman, who you've had on those podcasts. And so she got us started, which is we so we're forever in her.
Tim Buxton
Yeah. That's awesome. That's so good. Let's make it a little real, because there's probably a lot of people listening. And maybe they've got an idea. And maybe they're trying to figure out where they've got their why. And they're trying to figure out well, how do I how do I do this? How do I make it happen? Can you can you think of some of the, you know, you got the kickstart to get going but then kind of does last so long, right? There's only so many days of those moments. And you could, you could say Outland denim, who we've had on and remember that time when Megan Markel wore the, the jeans and it kind of took things to a new level, but there's challenges afterwards. Can you think of any, like, real challenges or difficulties that you've had to face? And maybe how you navigated your way through? Um, I think it'd be really,
Jim Chapman
Absolutely, yeah. Well, I mean, for anyone who's got an idea, like, where we're both so young, our whole team is very, very young. And, you know, we're not experts at anything we were, we're still learning so much as we go. And we've been very lucky to have so many people around us in, especially the Gold Coast, Brisbane, sort of start up social enterprise, sort of seen so many people who have been able to mentor us and, and teach us things along the way. But yeah, at the end of the day, you know, we've made so many mistakes, so many things that look back on going Geez, like, I wish we did that differently. But there's no like better way, and there's no better way to learn than just literally, we've just dove in and had a crack.
Sandy Hickson
And we're talking about this in the in the car on the way down. We're saying if if we had to go back and give ourselves advice. Yeah. I think we'd stay like pretty quiet. I think. I think we, we try and give ourselves some confidence, we say would say back yourself. Yes. Incredible quote, that, uh, you know, half of people's failures is riding their horse in just about to jump. And, and I think I'd say that, um, but other than that, I think I think the failures are where you learn, and Jim was saying this, that without failure, you don't get like the, the learning curve. And I think a lot of a lot of our failure has been kind of like iterative. Just trying a different thing and just throwing a lot of darts at the wall and saying what what sticks, and and then running with what sticks.
Jim Chapman
And yeah, you can only like learn so much from the startup guide textbook or whatever, you know, you feel these things physically, like, I don't know losing your first customer or, yeah, first negative feedback to, to an experience, you know, that's when you feel it and you go, I don't want to do that again. Like I'm going to do something different way.
Tim Buxton
You know, many think how any any negative setback, it's, it's incredible how. And it's always hard to do when you feel the emotional weight or you know the discouragement of something that just doesn't go as to plan. But the amazing gift of perspective that you can actually bring to that. I remember getting an email from somebody who was just really upset, not upset, but they would very much critiquing the approach to what we were doing as as a charity, right. And I just kind of took it to heart real personally. But a lot of people would probably just take that personally, like, Alright, you're critiquing your, you know, this is somebody I could, um, I kind of really value this person, but I might just have to just walk on without them and just carry on. And I remember, sitting down, took me that like, two or three days, I had to just not do anything, don't rush, that would be my other piece of advice. Don't just knee jerk reaction. But I remember a few days later, I wrote an email, and I thanked them for their critique. And I, I, it's, it opened the door for me to share even more openly and honestly, and transparently, even about how make, there's probably ways you could help me and well, the response I got, was that person ended up just doing a complete 180 making this real generous donation, and just totally like, wow, like this person who I thought was lost was now suddenly even more in on what we were doing. Not because I had convinced them or, or what not, but because I was willing to just, I guess, take a different perspective on it.
Sandy Hickson
And and yeah, it's just like raw honesty. Yeah, I think that's a it's so true. Like, if you if you can make yourself vulnerable. People trust you. It's like, it's incredible. Like, and I think we found that with, with the rebuilding of the school, like, it was just a really roll, roar appeal. And people trust, which is incredible.
Tim Buxton
Yeah, it's a good example, you know, your darkest day could almost be the, the, the doorway to and direction you wouldn't have gone or you wouldn't have known it would go from there. But good stuff. Any any other. Any other bits of advice or anything else you'd say.
Jim Chapman
Yeah, I mean, I just say like, again, like backing yourself having a crack starting really small with your idea. Like us, we were just myself just testing this idea with friends and family. I didn't know where it was gonna go. I didn't even know I was going to turn it into a company. Yeah. But then, like, I just got some positive feedback, positive response, people kind of came to lack the idea. And then one thing led to another, you know, I didn't you know, I didn't have this grand plan five year plan in place again. And then someone goes, Oh, like, you know, we've got a coffee pod machine at home, like, Can you guys do us coffee pods? And then did a bit of research that's sort of the market? Who's drinking coffee?
Tim Buxton
He could have said, No, we don't do coffee pods. You know, we're gonna just keep doing what we're doing and do that. But instead you like, yeah. Okay.
Jim Chapman
And then probably come to bite me one day. Yeah, entering all these different coffee avenues. We've got a coffee van now we do different events. But yeah, just testing the waters with different things, seeing what works, seeing what sort of feedback you get. And if it's positive, then then go for it. If it's not so positive, or, you know, you're gonna need to invest a lot of money than maybe think twice before diving into something. Yeah, I think when I started with a few $100 in the bank account, yeah, you know, just bootstrapping it and we still are, but yeah, again, nothing you wouldn't have learned anything you're not having a crack
Sandy Hickson
That's our business model fail and fail Well
Tim Buxton
Yeah, that's right or fail quick. So sometimes I heard it said you know, I think it was Phil Knight from Nike says we're gonna fail fail quick don't don't drag this thing down. Like Don't be so married to one thing and one idea like have your options open. Yeah, Bob golf another mentor to me. He's like, instead of just back in one horse in a race back them all and then one doing really well then get everything on that one, you know, and it's that kind of idea. It's the means. Could be anything. Yeah. Coffee is what you have found, but but you want to make a difference in the lives of these kids and the future of that country? That's one both of your hearts. Can you just talk a little bit more about your actual business just in case someone's listening? Yeah, they actually want to get involved somehow.
Jim Chapman
So nice coffee CO, I guess we specialize in, in, you know, supplying officers in the corporate scene. So not only our beans, but also doing machines and SSA, pods and everything. So we found, like a lot of traction, you know, small medium. businesses. Yeah. So I'm talking approach some larger corporates supplying route across Australia now strongly in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Cannes and a few other larger cities. And then, so yeah, we we, you know, we go in if they've already got machines, and we don't worry about that. We just supply them with our beans. And then, I guess, since COVID, you know, all of our office costs. Yes. Customers are not going into Yeah, no one was ordering. And we're like, what do we do? And so we did what everyone was doing, just like iterating. Adapting? Yeah. And that's kind of when we launched online e commerce side supplying households.
Tim Buxton
Yeah, it actually forced you to like, yeah, to go into another avenue.
Jim Chapman
Yeah. And it's been the best thing ever. Because, you know, everyone, a lot of people work in offices. Yeah. So at the end of the day, if they order, you know, a kilo or two for home, you know, program just for that plunger, and they like it, they'll, they'll get us into their office, which is really cool. Yeah.
Sandy Hickson
Yeah. So now, we have this, like these kind of two business models like running side by side, we can supply to home and we do like a subscription to home where you can just order one off. And then we also supply two offices. And we do like the whole, like, veins, machines, and everything else. And then the third part is you also have a coffee van, which we should we park, outside kangaroo point or somewhere in West End. Yeah. In the mornings. And, and that's been a lot of fun as well. Yeah.
Tim Buxton
So who's the guy that has to park the car? Do you have something that works for you?
Sandy Hickson
I just learned the impact you can have. Yeah, just like yeah, over there with the conversion rate. And and yeah, like just like just one cup of coffee can just have like such an impact. Yeah.
Jim Chapman
Yeah, we've got some baristas? Yeah, we got few events on the Gold Coast. Awesome. This weekend. Next weekend up in Brisbane. Yeah, yeah, it's really good way of getting the word out. Yeah, meeting people. Yeah, and then I guess, obviously, the core of the business model is using the profits from those beans from those machine sales into the school. So like any business, we we pass supplies? Yeah. You know, we've we've now realizing that, you know, we have to start doing marketing, we can't rely on on the Today Show forever... expenses, and then using those profits in funneling them into the school for various projects. Wherever I guess it's needed the most. So, throughout COVID all of the teachers were receiving a bit lacking Australian job. We were employing 11 teachers, rat COVID. And we still are. And it amazes me, you know, the other day, we sent just $3,000 for February teachers salaries 11 teachers. It's like ridiculous. And we'd love to increase that salary to you know, beyond the standard Kenyan wage but like Yeah, can you imagine in Australia
Tim Buxton
So what's it so what's it like working together and on in on this you guys co founders is kind of Yeah, we caught on each other. Yeah.
Sandy Hickson
You're actually lucky to get us in the same room together usually were clash pretty badly. No, no, it's been incredible going into business with with a friend. It's, there's no like, beating around the bush as they say, you, you tell it how it is. So if I'm being ridiculous, Jim, let me know about it pretty quickly. And and and Same goes for him. Yeah. But it's been a lot of fun and an incredible amount of fun. We're saying before we started recording that, that half of our meetings are just just devoted to paying each other out.
Tim Buxton
Well, we can we can afford some time at the end of this podcast make each other out. Yeah.
Sandy Hickson
Watch out, Tim. All righty, I won't hold back.
Jim Chapman
But yeah, we've got a big year ahead, I think. Yeah, what's going? Yeah, we're pretty ambitious this year. A few different projects in the park plan. On the on, in a business sense, we're trying to score some really solid corporate contracts, you know, national supplier with a few companies, which is really, really exciting. just signed a few really cool contracts up in Brisbane, with some some colleges. It's awesome. And an app project since in the school sense, we've also got some really exciting projects ahead. Talking with just the principal and looking at the possibility of, of actually buying the land of which the school sits. Yeah. One of the big problems at the moment is that this school, St. John's it, school is situated on a lady's private land, and I pay a monthly rental that comes with its risks. And sure, you know, we've put so much money into the infrastructure. Yes. Yeah, renting here in Australia, and building a pool or something like a new deck, you know, you wouldn't do that. And it's kind of what we've been doing and in in the long run if we want to ensure the I guess the sustainability, the long term vision and education of these kids, then we really want to own the land.
Sandy Hickson
Which is a big it's a big undertaking. Yeah, yes. And so
Tim Buxton
It's a new phase of your journey. new challenges.
Sandy Hickson
Yeah, yeah. And that's awesome. It's a Yeah, every every year presents new challenges like last year is rebuilding the roof. This year it's it's all about buying the entire school Yeah, here we go.
Tim Buxton
Oh, man. Oh, that's that's that's a phenomenal anything else on the horizon? It sounds like I mean, you guys have said you've got some events but you guys are participating in the event this week. On a personal front right?
Jim Chapman
Yeah. Me you're looking at me?
Tim Buxton
Aren't you both... have you forgotten.
Jim Chapman
No I haven't Forgotten okay.
Tim Buxton
Okay, we're Yeah, we're doing a half Iron Man together like I'm doing the run. Jim's doing the the cycle. Wow, we've got another friend doing the swim. But uh, yeah, we so what is it? Fine, man. How long is that? As long as your ride Jim.
Tim Buxton
I'm Running 80 kilometers... riding riding riding? Is Yeah.
Sandy Hickson
Have you like I've kind of got a bone to pick with Jim because like I've been training like a tiny bit like bare minimum but every time I was living with Jim and every time I'd go out for a run Jim would be you know on the couch behind Oh come on and and i don't i don't think he's been trained. I think he's even got on the bike and
Jim Chapman
yeah, I did 40Km the other day. That's hard to do. 40km Really was not easy.
Sandy Hickson
Yeah, I did 15km so I have to run 22kmand I did 15km and almost almost killed me almost died.
Tim Buxton
Well, well, once you've done that. This is kind of new news for you belong as well. We're doing a bike to belong. campaign events. It's 80kms over eight days a day so you'll be smashed it out in one day. Yeah, so we let people choose their form of bike. So whether it's a mountain bike, road bike, you can go to your spin class and at the gym and ride that so it's not not everyone's doing it together. Now it's going to be virtual. Anyone can join in from anywhere. You choose your ride, you choose your your pace. So whether you want to do it on the weekend, 40 Ks or the Saturday Sunday or whether you do it 10 K's every day. So it's a bit of a challenge that everyone can do because not all of us are, you know, fit like you Jim, just show up on the day and
Sandy Hickson
here's the problem. Jim is not very fit.
Tim Buxton
We got that coming up on World Refugee week. Oh, it's a whole week to talk about 80 million displaced in the world.
Sandy Hickson
And how do I jump on and join? So again, this is like it's we're in the process of releasing March will be you can start registering for it's in June. So it's a little bit ways away. So anyway, that's that's exciting news from our end. But again, like you do the 80kms as if you knew where it was gonna go and the impact it could have. Yeah, is, you know, it's, yeah, it's exciting.
Sandy Hickson
Like during COVID like exercise, the only thing that kept me sane. Yeah, right. I think Jim was the same. Yeah. During a lockdown. I think it's Yeah.
Jim Chapman
Yeah. I can run the 80km.
Sandy Hickson
No, Thank you.
Tim Buxton
Now you can you can even ride a motorbike. How's that? I've got Oh, yeah, just do the 80km motobike ride. For me, I'd probably do that. Because that sounds like fun. I've never really ridden him. I probably have to get my license first. So I was on a dirt bike on someone's property or something. tearing up one day, but I'm kind of out to the farm. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So um, well, guys, it's been great chatting. Yeah. Any other ways that people can get involved? Learn about you guys. Where are you? On the worldwide web?
Sandy Hickson
Tell you a local office and cafe about us. And, and jump jump online? Like order a bag? And get into it? Yeah, yeah, you can get delivered right to your front door. Yeah. And and just route a cup and a half. Right. So right we have these cups you can buy and that we should have been drinking from the Keep cups. And, and yes, spread the word. Yeah. Social media is just
Jim Chapman
NiceCoffeeco. Yeah. But yeah, again, like, we're very young and love to learn from and connect with like minded people like yourself. We're always learning. So, yeah, hit us up. If
Tim Buxton
Yeah, shoot them an email if you've got some questions. So I think that's the awesome theme, and how can we help each other on our way? Which is one of the reasons why I was really wanting to connect with you guys. And just, yeah, let's get together and chat. I'm sure this podcast will keep going long after we hit stop on the record button.
Sandy Hickson
Yeah, thanks for giving us a voice. Yeah. Yeah.
Tim Buxton
Yeah, well, you guys doing phenomenal work. And I just when I look at you guys, I see right past you and I see the eyes of those kids that have a chance at an education. And, and that's hope that's a dream. That's, that's an ability to make for their own life, the life they dream of, but also why so they can impact and change their country. So it's amazing. What are you doing? Keep it up. And let's keep in touch. Yes.
Jim Chapman
Thank you for having us.
