Episode 12: Jude Kalman — How A Cinematographer Ends Up Speaking At The United Nations
Jude Kalman is an independent film maker from the Gold Coast whose documentaries have featured nationally on Channel Nine, at the 2017 Gold Coast Film Festival, and the 2019 LAMPA International Film Festival (Russia).
Working for an award-winning boutique agency since 2007 enabled her to hone her craft, diversify her skill set and deliver exceptional multimedia and film for multiple platforms and audiences. She’s won an Australian Cinematographers Society Award for her work on Swell Sculpture Festival, was a Gold Coast Music Award finalist for co-directing Amy Shark’s music video “Weekends” and her self-funded trip to Nigeria to produce “Uncontained Love: Love > Fear” won the 2018 CMAA award for Compelling Film / TV / Video Content. In 2020, she was awarded the Graham Wade Pilgrim Media Prize for her portfolio of work in Mozambique with charity Mission Educate.
In February 2020, Jude was invited to speak at the United Nations' 58th Commission for Social Development on "Social Impact Films as a means to Promoting Inclusion", in conjunction with the screening of the film she produced and directed about Mission Educate. FishFilms was formed to drive her work with NGOs, charities and social enterprises toward the forefront as she seeks to tell “people stories” that inspire and connect humanity.
In this episode, we speak candidly about her experiences and perspective growing up as a child of refugees who migrated here to Australia. Jude's empathic approach to storytelling and the contagious joy that she exudes makes her -- in my humble opinion -- the perfect person to be trusted with the beautiful people she encounters and the precious stories they carry.
You can learn more about her work and her new venture Fish Films by visiting www.fishfilms.com.au. You can also reach out to Jude and follow her on twitter @FishFilmsJude. Subscribe (https://justicematters.buzzsprout.com) Support the podcast (https://patreon.com/justicematters)
Full Transcript
Jude Kalman 00:00
100% you know, you think wow, like, far out like, I live such a privileged life. You know, I am a child of refugees. Yet I don't think I realized that until I was 40 years old that Oh, wow, like my parents escaped from a war torn country. And, you know, I have no idea what that's like, you know, I, I am an Aussie and I have been privileged, you know, one of my best mates at school said man used to eat Cocoa Puffs for breakfast, you know? And I think, wow, I have no idea. You know, I was talking to mom the other day and she was like, yeah, you know, some people in Australia haven't been hungry, you know, they haven't. And it's like, well, I'm, I'm my mom was quite poor growing up. And, you know, I think well, I have, I have no, I have no idea of that kind of life. Yet the resilience and the strength and the wisdom and the knowledge that you can gain. You know, when you talk to people who have enjoyed and lived through, you know, some of the most horrific stuff you're going wow, like, yeah, I think again, I just think humans a fascinating and we have so much to learn from each other.
Tim Buxton 01:26
You're listening to Justice Matters with Tim Buxton, a podcast inspiring the fight for a world where everyone belongs. Welcome back to the Justice Matters podcast. This morning, I had the privilege of sitting down with Jude Kalman. Now she is an award winning documentary cinematographer. He was recently awarded the 2020 "Graham Wade Pilgrim Media Prize". That's a mouthful. But she was also invited as a result, to speak at the United Nations there 58 commission for social development. She has such a passion to tell people story through her craft of documentary filmmaking. She's even started her own production house called Fish Films, where she's able to get along and support NGOs and charities in their work to really tell the important stories of the poor and the oppressed and elevate their voices. You know, as I sat down with her, we talked... she is such a delightful and joyful, beautiful person to talk to, and her passion for this work that she has really oozes through in our conversation. She really takes so seriously the task that she has to tell the stories that she's given with respect, with integrity, and really with with honor. And if you have any interest in the art of storytelling of film and documentary making, I know that you're gonna thoroughly enjoy this conversation that I have with her. Here it is my conversation with Jude Kalman. Jude, thanks for coming into the studio.
Jude Kalman 03:16
Oh, no problem. Thanks for having me. Yeah.
Tim Buxton 03:18
And how does it feel to be on the other side of the camera?
Jude Kalman 03:22
Not gonna lie. I'm a little bit nervous. I'm way more comfortable behind the camera. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. Happy to be here.
Tim Buxton 03:31
He got some good advice from from
Jude Kalman 03:33
you. I did my morning. Yes, I did. Do you want to hear the advice? Why not? Well, okay. Okay. The advice was to have fun. Okay, so I'm gonna remember that. Yeah. Um, the second most important thing was not to fart. So, clearly, I have three step sons. Yes. And, and that's an issue. Okay. It's real. Alrighty. I'm gonna try my best. That's.
Tim Buxton 03:57
That's pretty fun. advice there.
Jude Kalman 04:01
Ah, thought wisdom. That's wisdom right there.
Tim Buxton 04:03
Well, well, I What did you think of that bulletproof coffee? Is that kind of kicked in it? It's
Jude Kalman 04:09
It's slowly releasing. So yeah,yeah, it's good. It's good.
Tim Buxton 04:14
Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. This bulletproof coffee. I've kind of started getting it more recently. And it just the sound of it is cool. But the fact that it's got this high octane brain oil that releases the caffeine. How could you pass that up?
Jude Kalman 04:34
Yeah, yeah. Although I'm a bit worried about my my brain exploding. No, hey, the slow slow release of the caffiene. Blablavlalabla
Tim Buxton 04:45
As you can tell, it's already kind of like slowing our speech down a bit better. Look. Thanks again for coming to the studio. And I am just I'm just thrilled to just be able to have this conversation with you. I know how from personal experience how important the work of people in, in film and in photography and in Arts and Media is in telling the stories of of those that are around us, especially lifting the voiceless, who often don't have the opportunity to share their story. And I love that you've dedicated your craft your your gift to that. And I guess I'm kind of curious as to where it all began, you know, for you, where did it begin this idea of, of wanting to tell the stories of the press wanting to kind of orient your, your passion and your life work towards, you know, having a social impact on it on our world? For the good?
Jude Kalman 05:56
Hmm. Well, I think I've always loved film ever since I was little. And I don't think the penny dropped until I was working throughout Africa for NGO. And, you know, making financial education DVDs. I think prior to that, sorry, I remember working on Scooby Doo. And I loved it. And it was a goal that I had. And it was like, Oh my gosh, I'm on a Hollywood film. This is epic. And then I kind of went Wow, hold on. Like, although storytelling is awesome, like, Is this it? You know? And I think maybe that's I started thinking about it, but it wasn't till probably maybe 10 years later, within the industry when I was working in the field in Africa, and I went, wow, maybe I could use my skill set behind the camera on to to empower and to encourage and to, to help people to hear from people themselves. You know? Yeah, I think definitely working in with that company. At that time, I got to meet so many amazing people. And, and I'd learnt so much from people and, and we're working with the poorest of the poor. And yet, they were so entrepreneurial, and they were so switched on. And I thought wow, like, yeah, I think I realized with my craft too, that maybe maybe I could use my craft for not just selling a product or, you know, or telling a story that might be, you know, might be okay, but it's kind of shallow or I don't know.
Tim Buxton 07:36
Yeah. Yeah. You know, when I think about it, we talked a bit about this before, when, when it comes to telling people story, and you kind of reference even just then this idea of letting people tell their own stories. How important is that kind of how important is that to you when it comes to you know, the power of story, and then the power of, you know, what makes it so compelling to you, when you give people the chance and the time the opportunity to be able to tell their own story.
Jude Kalman 08:12
I think I think humans are fascinating, I think everyone has a story. And in the years that I've been doing this, as you listen to someone, and and really give them opportunity to talk and, you know, tell their story and share their story. And, you know, when you're interviewing people, you're actively listening, and you're having a conversation. You know, I've lent that, wow, this, people have wisdom and gems inside them. And I just find that so fascinating. I just find people fascinating. And it's like, I've worked with agency kind of work and selling products, and, you know, advertising and stuff like that. And, you know, you write scripts, and you assume a lot of things, right? But when I know what I love about what I'm trying to do is okay, I understand how to interview someone, I know how to listen to them, and and kind of let them just tell this story. Because they have such wisdom, you can't assume you know that person that you're talking to, or you can assume the circumstance that they're in. So it's really sort of just sitting back and going. Yeah, tell me about it. Yeah, help me understand what you've been through. You know, because I don't want to assume or bring any prior knowledge. I'm here to listen and to learn, I guess.
Tim Buxton 09:38
Yeah. I mean, how many times have I in in the past with with my, my current charity, and with the work I've done in Iraq, when we've talked about, hey, let's film, as you know, a five minute piece to better talk about what we're doing. We've gone into it with this, you know, we've got to do this, this, this, this and this, and this is what we've got to tell the audience and this is how we want to Do it and you kind of get halfway into it. You're like, Ah, this is like a it's like grinding. How do we like force this into and it just feels manufactured? And yeah, I guess that's kind of the beauty maybe of the the ability to do something a bit more longer. Yeah, pieces. Hat what made what made you kind of get pulled into their kind of longer story format of documentary film, it seemed, you know, from looking at your work, it just seems like that's kind of where you really thrive or really
Jude Kalman 10:37
Well, yeah, I love longer format, because one, you have the ability to really share someone's story. Well, you know, and, or, you know, a subject or an issue. It's not just kind of quick in and out sort of, like you, you can meet people and go on their journey with them. Yeah, and I suppose in longer format. What I love how I love to do it is really again, you kind of information gathering and you're listening and you're hearing again, like you said earlier, you're okay, we've got this plan. But once you start sitting down talking to people, and let's say with uncontained love, we spoke to a lot of people. And it was kind of like, well, this reoccurring theme, then you start realizing, wow, hold on this, you know, this isn't just happening to one person, this has happened to so many people, yes, you know, those, those sort of things, too. And you're not assuming you're not hearing from headlines, you're hearing from people from people's actual lives and their experiences. So,
Tim Buxton 11:45
Gosh, so so much of media these days is like that headline, we've got a message we want to give to you. And we'll just take whatever, soundbites are out there to kind of reinforce yes message. It's almost like, you know, whether it's on social media or a news media, it's so hard to find the genuine, authentic, what is the reality on the ground, like, when we were living in Iraq, people would constantly say he like guy what's going on, because they're watching the news. And at one point in time, we had to just turn the news off ourself, because we like, we're getting ourselves afraid and worried by watching the news of what's happening, you know, in and around us. But that isn't the real, the reality that isn't the you know, that what is what is happening in, in my community and in my world, and, and in it? So I guess it's just so important. So was it long into your kind of career that you kind of did the switch more to documentary or have you already been? Did you do that? Oh, I think the beginning
Jude Kalman 12:52
Oh, I've sort of dabbled, because I'm in production, I've done all sorts of things. Yeah. It was probably, you know, yeah.. what, a couple of years ago, I decided, you know, I drew a line in the sand and went, you know, I'm going to go out and, and pursue it more, in my own kind of way. And that's why I started Fish Films. So, gosh, I've worked in the industry for 20 years, doing all sorts of things and working on different "Docos", whether that's filming it or editing it. Yeah, so but I guess my "Docos", yeah, have more of a social kind of justice vibe to it. And to give a voice. I've just really was compelled. I remember sitting on a set a couple of years ago, it might even have been last year, where I was really convicted. And I thought, well, like I've, I've had the opportunity to work on films and behind the scenes and stuff. And I thought, well, like these people already have a voice. I want to use my skill set for those that don't, and I want to do it respectfully. I think there's a fine line of, I get the sensationalizing stuff and, you know, and the, the, like, I hate the word clickbait kind of thing. You know, all that stuff, really. I hate all that sort of stuff. But I understand to get people's attention, and how to tell a good story and a compelling story. So, for me, I guess I'm always trying to wrestle between I understand that, but also I want to tell a story that's respectful. I also want to tell a story that is true. And you know, as a cinematographer, I want to put it in its best light and put the person the situation the circumstance, you know, in its best light. So
Tim Buxton 14:38
Yeah, and I love that I love that dedication to listening to making sure that you really are getting the truth that you're not putting the the assumptions and and the sensationalism into, you know, projecting that into it. I think that is incredibly respectful and obviously Something that is very good reflects the way the person that you are to Jude. Now, you kind of refer to Uncontained Love, which was a documentary that you
Jude Kalman 15:15
shot in Nigeria. Sorry, Jos, sorry. Yeah. So that was, it was actually a bat. The displaced people of Nigeria and the surrounding countries, they'd been displaced by the Boko Haram and also another terrorist group called the Fulani group. So again, we we just traveled in there and I really wanted to one we were learning about what happened and what is happening in Nigeria. For me, I'm really passionate about the developed world learning about what's happening in the developing nations. You don't really hear about those kind of stories. And yeah, like, wow, I got to meet some amazing people with incredible stories and an incredible strength. And, you know, and determination and, you know, I will uncontained love is about it's actually about love is greater than fear, and that, you know, love, love will win, love wins over fear and fear tries to shut you down. But when you operate out of love, you know, you can get up again So, wow, yeah, it's a it's a real thing. Fear. So we got to interview a lot of people who had been held at gunpoint, shot, stabbed, tried, they were Yeah, really horrible stories. But they're, this story's Definitely a part of who they are and what they've been through. And you just go, Wow, this person is injured so much, yet, they're still standing and they still, you know, moving on and living and it's a part of them. Yeah, I just find it fascinating. Yeah, I can't even do stories justice, you know, how do they move forward? And how do they move on, but people people aren't, they're trying their best. And they're, they're just, you know, yeah.
Tim Buxton 17:22
Justice Matters is brought to you by You Belong. If you'd like to learn more about their work, empowering refugees to integrate and thrive in Australia, head on over to youbelong.org.au. There, you'll find ways to get involved, volunteer and financially get behind the several initiatives they've got going on. There's also a stack of articles and blogs that you'll find there that are really informative and engaging. Now, did you know this podcast is actually a video podcast featured on YouTube? Just search "Justice Matters TV" on YouTube and watch each episode right there. And while you're there, hit subscribe and get notified each time a new video drops. You know, I think it's so important that we do listen to other people's stories that kind of helps us to realize areas in our own lives that we've struggled with fear it's can often be not only enlightening, and helping us to how do we address the suffering that they're going through? But how do I even personally move forward in in life and look at the reality of the fear that holds me back the fear that keeps me from, from loving others or being open to to being loved myself? Now that film did get an award correct?
Jude Kalman 18:50
Yeah, yeah. Got a couple actually. Okay.
Tim Buxton 18:53
What what awards were they?
Jude Kalman 18:55
It One of them was Oh, my goodness. Like the most compelling for it was actually an Australian award Christian media and Arts Award for the most compelling Yeah. documentary. And it also won in another film festival.
Tim Buxton 19:12
I've got the print out here, maybe?
Jude Kalman 19:14
Oh, yeah, I'm terrible with I know. So I never put my films in film stuff. My husband does it behind my back. Well, I'm not making it for the award. Right. But you know, my husband has taught me that. Yeah, you know what, you got to promote the story. So people actually hear the stories. I get that. I guess. I'm more to in the trenches, just I want to hear the story. I want to, I want to go down and you know, and sit with people and learn about their lives and and then use my craft to tell their story. So that's a whole other world promoting so
Tim Buxton 19:48
is that your husband?
Jude Kalman 19:49
Oh, yeah, he's pretty good, man. Yes. So, so Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's awesome to win an award and it's an honor and it's a privilege.
Tim Buxton 19:59
I love the fact that you don't eben know the names of the awards
Jude Kalman 20:01
It's terrible, and I don't mean to dishonour it, I'm just more focused in the field,
Tim Buxton 20:09
I think it speaks to, you know, your your singleness of purpose to to really honor and in and respect the story itself and not to, you know, to necessarily think it's all about, you know what, what accomplishments or achievements that it has. But obviously it tells to have the wonderful work that you are doing. But you recently recently, kind of spoke at a pretty important event. I'm pretty. I'm pretty excited to hear more about Yeah. Can you tell us more about about that?
Jude Kalman 20:45
Yeah. Well, seriously, like, talk about, you know, like, ending up in really cool places? Um, I yeah. Earlier this year, I spoke at the UN, the United Nations in New York. It was for the you've got a tell me..
Tim Buxton 21:00
Social impact films as a means to promoting inclusion. I love that, that that award that title.
Jude Kalman 21:10
Oh, me, too. I did. That's why I didn't want to get it wrong. Yeah. So I had the honor of speaking about that. And I was invited there through the lampo, Russian Film Festival. So the year before, I had won an award with a short daco that I had made. And then because of that association, we were invited to the UN to speak on that behalf. So I shared the platform with fellow filmmakers throughout the world. Wow. And each of us got to speak about different topics. Mine was, you know, how do you how do you make films that in, you know, that are inclusive, and I guess I had the the honor to share, you know, about all you sit down, and you respect that person? And and I believe my job is to make someone sound good, as in technical sound, and also, you know, make them look good, as in, you know, is the camera in focus? Is it you know, well, fairly well, well, it's, all those things are important. And they're, they're done out of respect. So that person can share their story. So I kind of suppose I think I kind of talked about the nuts and bolts of, you know, how do you film and how do you tell a good story. And again, it's, it's not assuming knowledge, it's, you know, helping someone take the story out of them and helping, you know, listening to them. And the biggest Yeah, the first thing you do, when you're making a good compelling story to me is you listen, so, so yeah, so it was it was awesome, because you want United Nations to what I suppose you know, we got to walk around and and I realized, wow, like these guys are, you know, they are doing a great work throughout the nations, for the vulnerable. And for those, you know, for the poor, for the dis disabled. So it was really cool to meet fellow filmmakers who will sort of decided, hey, this is what we want to do with our craft. We want to give a voice to people who don't often have a voice in media or film. Russia is actually quite switched on in that space. Wow. They're making shows and and even in advertising and things like that. Yeah, it's it's really about kind of, you know, earlier we talked about, you don't know, someone's kind of story, you know, there's certain groups of people that we just don't know their story. Exactly. So I guess it was really cool to, to meet fellow filmmakers who were like, hey, let's share the stories that people don't really hear about, you know, and, yeah, so it was, it was an honor and, and kind of bizarre, kind of, wow,
Tim Buxton 24:01
we had it, Australia. Yeah.
Jude Kalman 24:04
You know, I'm definitely more comfortable just behind a camera, and, you know, following someone around, rather than taking the platform and speaking but, but you know, in saying that, I guess I've also realized through it, like what a great opportunity and to be able to speak on that platform, and, and not just for myself, but I got to share a film that I made in Mozambique. So really, at the end of the day, their voices were heard at the United Nations
Tim Buxton 24:35
What film was that
Jude Kalman 24:37
It's called Mission Educate. Okay. So yeah, so that that was just a it was just actually a short story about a charity in Mozambique. But, you know, the heroes of that story all got a platform at the UN so it was super exciting. You know, that was a dream come true. You know, to, to like, you know, they had the ease of Many influential people and you know that that short film had awesome people in it and yeah, that they spoke at the UN that day, not just me
Tim Buxton 25:09
How good is that. You know, that kind of award about you know, social impact as a means to promoting inclusion well, even this podcast that the tagline is inspiring the fight for a world where everyone belongs and part of the drive of You Belong, the charity that we have in, that's most active in in Toowoomba at the moment and is addressing the Yezidi people who have who have recently found refuge in Australia, incredibly beautiful people that just a few years ago, they honored and remembered their own genocide at the hands of ISIS, and they've come here now, many families ripped apart, torn apart, trying to piece back their life together here in Australia, but very misunderstood. Very beautiful people, we, they, they stole my heart when I was living in Northern Iraq and spending so much time with them and understanding and learning their cultures, their religious practices, their their language, their their way of life was just so was so enriching, but this idea of, of telling their story in a way that helps them feel like they belong. Inclusion isn't saying you're, you know, you can, we'll let you in. It's this sense of, no, you're this, you, you belong here, and I have so much more to learn from you. Yes, then maybe what you feel like you, you have to learn from us and our culture and our language and our way of life. And it's that fostering of, of posturing to listen, to learn, to love first, really, I think brings out and creates a world that is just so much more beautiful, and hopefully more just.
Jude Kalman 27:10
Yeah, for sure. I think we're in this together, aren't we? Yeah. So that's, that is inclusion. It's not like, one is better than the other. We've all got strengths and weaknesses. And, you know, like, I kind of like to think that, you know, I have a skill set, and I have experienced behind the camera and with all the technical goodies, and you know, I want to come alongside someone else and go, Hey, I want to give, I want to use what I've got to sort of, you know, not help as in Oh, you Yeah, but, but I love to do this, you know, not everyone knows how to film or whatever. But hey, I want to do that. So we can share your story. Yeah.
Tim Buxton 27:55
Yeah. Hundred percent. I mean, when and even when I say like, we were talking about this earlier, like, the those that have gone through suffering and trauma and you hear their stories. One thing you realize is, there are some of the most strong, resilient, powerful, courageous human beings and I shudder to think, how I would respond, or react or what what situation I'd be had I gone through, what, what they experience. And that's, I think, where, where we, we humbly say, look, you you're not you don't really belong, but I have, I need you. I need your story. I need what you have to offer and bring
Jude Kalman 28:52
100% you know, you think wow, like, far out like, I live such a privileged life. You know, I am a child of refugees. Wow. Yet, I don't think I realized that until I was 40 years old, that Oh, wow. Like my parents escaped from a war torn country. And, you know, I have no idea what that's like, you know, I, I am an Aussie and I have been privileged, you know, one of my best mates at school said, Man, he used to eat Cocoa Puffs for breakfast, you know? And I think, wow, I have no idea. You know, I was talking to mom the other day and she was like, yeah, you know, some people in Australia haven't been hungry. You know, they haven't. And it's like, wow, my mom was quite poor growing up. And, you know, I think wow, I have, I have no, I have no idea of that kind of life. Yet the resilience and the strength and the wisdom and the knowledge that you can gain when you talk to people who have enjoyed and lived through You know, some of the most horrific stuff you're going wow. Like? Yeah, I think, again, I just think humans are fascinating. And we have so much to learn from each other, you know? Yeah. And, and like, my, my strengths are not for myself. Like, if that makes sense. Yeah. Like any, any kind of privilege, or I hate to say it like blessing that I may have, you know, like, as an Australian, like, you know, I am very passionate that I want to... that's not just for me...
Tim Buxton 30:43
That's a responsibility you have, right?
Jude Kalman 30:45
Yeah, I think, yeah, I'm totally, I'm really challenged by that, and not just live for myself, you know,
Tim Buxton 30:52
I guess what I hear us saying, or trying to convey is this, there's this moment in time where we need to just listen, we need to be reflective of where we where we're at, and, and the opportunity we have what is in our hands to elevate those around us that for no fault of their own, have been exploited have been, whether it just be what, what country they were born in, what family dynamics that they were in, how can we use our gifts, our talents, the things that we have to elevate and, and, and share and give voice to those around us. And I love I love how, how wonderful and how incredibly powerful the gift of story, and the gift of film and the gift of photography and the arts are in a in being able to do that. Now we've kind of talked a bit about some of the highlights for you some of the, you know, great experiences that you've had in this journey. What about some of the some more challenging the experiences that you've you've found in this work? And can you shed some light on maybe a moment or, or an experience or that you've had that's just kind of really been hard?
Jude Kalman 32:20
Oh, golly, I think the stuff that I have done in short, I'm a bit of an emotional person. So it's like, yeah, even thinking about, like, you know, I take, I take it seriously when I sit down with someone and I interview them and I hear their stories, like, you know, so I think the hardest thing is really kind of digesting, you know, everything that you're hearing. And then and then wrestling with how do I tell this story respectfully, you know, because this person has trust me with with their fears or with a trauma, you know? And I think that's the most challenging. Yeah, that that has been so challenging. Yeah, I mean, definitely the uncontained love stuff was really hard goal because we, we interviewed so many different people and their stories were just, you know, horrendous and, and the children far out like, it's just not and you you're wrestling with that, hearing these stories and, and blown away by this strength. Um, yet, you know, like, Hey, we're all human, like, far out like I can only scratch the surface of what they have been through. Yet, yeah, I find that really crushing. Thankfully, you know, I I travel with a friend so I'm more of the beauty and the, and the emotional person and then my journo is the truth seeker. So we kind of want every at the end of every day, it's been a big thing, hearing people's stories, you know, where we're kind of, you know, talking to each other and trying to figure it all out too, you know, because it's not, I'm not in this to sensationalize. Yeah, I really want to honor people. And so people understand or people know about what's going on in the world. So,
Tim Buxton 34:31
so gosh, it must be hard. I mean, probably when you say journal, you mean a journalist on a trans American? Oh, yes, accordion chat, live chat. But I can imagine how important it is to have someone alongside you in the process to work through these stories because yeah, when you when you hear something that sometimes you need to be at a debrief and kind of set This, this affected me and I, you know, there is such a thing as vicarious trauma, when you're, you're helping and being so entwined in someone else's suffering and pain, that you can carry that and, and, you know, you, you know, I could imagine how important it is to have someone alongside you and that work?
Jude Kalman 35:25
Yeah, well, I think it's not only that, like you sort of spend days and plus, you know, I really want to be respect for when I'm somewhere. And then then also you come back and I edit the Dakotas. So you're reliving it, and you're hearing these stories over and over again, and I am someone who really kind of, you know, empathetic, you know, and I think that's a good thing, because you want to try to do that in your story. Ultimately, when I put it all together, I'm trying to create empathy and, and share this story in a respectful way. Yeah, so editing it too. Yeah, it can be tricky, but it's so well worth it. Like, because, you know, stories like that need to be told, and people need to be heard. And, and, and even I suppose, like, you know, the stuff we did in Mozambique you, you can I have seen a lot of poverty in my career with the travel that I have done. And it's kind of like, when I take someone who hasn't really seen that you're like, oh, wow, you Okay, why, you know, and but even then I still get impacted because I think Hold on, this isn't right, like, you know, last year we were in Kibera, which is like one of the biggest urban slums in Nairobi, just outside of Nairobi. And you think, Wow, like, people have got beautiful lives there. They're, you know, they like crushing it in at school. And, you know, but but it's not right, the place like sanitation, and yeah, and that's you just going wow, people live in this house. Wait, what? You know, how is this? How's this happened? Yeah, you know, so it's that wrestle? I think that's the biggest challenge wrestling going far out. Something's got to change. I don't know how it's gonna change. Yeah, um, yeah, but you know, deep in my heart, it's like, That's not right, that that kid is sleeping that way. And, you know, yeah, yeah, totally. I think that's probably without going into a specific.
Tim Buxton 37:33
Yeah. I can only imagine. You, you mentioned your, your department, you've done some work with a journalist. Is there anything? Are you able to talk about maybe some of the projects you're working on now that's coming up, or some of the things that kind of you're looking for,
Jude Kalman 37:52
yes, at the moment where we've already shot a little bit of some daco. But we're really in pre production. And yeah, we're, we're just learning all about the South Sudanese community in Australia. So which is beautiful, beautiful. Yeah, again, those guys, Australian media hasn't been so nice. So again, our heart isn't to share that kind of story. I love. You know, we're, we're really at the stage of interviewing a lot of people and relationship building as well. Because we really want to tell a story. Again, that is, one is true, and is also still respectful.
Tim Buxton 38:34
Yeah. And it's their story that they want to tell right? story again, want to project onto them?
Jude Kalman 38:40
Yeah, absolutely. 100% that's, you know, again, I just come with the skill set, you know, and then allow, you know, those guys to tell their story, and of course, I use my craft to, you know, kind of stitch it all together. But by no means do I come I never want to come with an agenda because because because I've worked in that space. That's called appetizing. No, but you know what I mean?
Tim Buxton 39:11
Yeah, totally. And you know, as you know, it's been a bit of a challenge this project right with the COVID kind of restrictions that have now been placed on
Jude Kalman 39:21
Oh, yeah.
Tim Buxton 39:22
That's got to be a bit discouraging, I'm sure.
Jude Kalman 39:25
Yeah, yeah, it is a little bit so we do still we have a lot to shoot in Melbourne. So last year, I went to South Sudan. And that was an experience and an eye opening experience. Again, we went there to just really listen in to find out what you know, what is where is a sedan? What's it like over there? What's happening? We met some amazing people like and again you just like wow, these guys have been through generational trauma with with War and all life all sorts like. So again, we we did that short trip to just gain understanding. So we've got a lot to shoot in Melbourne and unfortunately, Cody was shot down. So, you know, I guess we just we sit and wait for that.
Tim Buxton 40:21
Well, you're definitely not one to rush you're obviously one to really be patient in the process and so hoping that that, that we'll be able to kind of come together at the right time. You talked about your wrestle with the tension of, of, of seeing someone living in conditions, that's just not right. What though is that that gives you hope, as you're looking forward to the future, though, even amidst that. The challenge and the wrestle of, of, of, hey, this isn't right, what drives it? what's what's your I hate to say your why, but what is your hope? that just keeps you going in this in this work? What is it that you just ultimately believe in? Keep keeps driving you forward?
Jude Kalman 41:12
Oh, yeah, I hope my hope for the things that Fish Films does is that it will give a platform to people yeah. And their stories and subjects that we don't really hear about, you know, so it's in the mix. It's in the conversation. And my hope is yes, I wrestle with you know, things aren't right, you see it, but I've also seen champions rise up, despite Yes, what they've gone through, as you know, they floor me, because yes, like, wow, hell yes, I hate to use this word, but resilience bar out. It's just insane. Some people what they've been through what they've enjoyed, and trauma is and mental health, like far out that is not, it's, you know, that's not an easy subject. And it's something that, you know, maybe we all are out, I reckon I wrestle with it, you know, but when I meet people who have been through stuff and you going wow, like, despite their trauma, or their experience, or where they've got.. their poverty, whatever, that they're rising up, they're doing the best that they can there. They are, you know, in their circumstance, and I suppose, you know, I do have faith that this this, you know, this isn't just it. So, you know, I guess it just doesn't end there doesn't mean that we don't go on with, there's nothing we can do about it. But it's certainly I'm cheering people on seeing them, you know, kind of stand up and yeah, and do what they want to do. You know,
Tim Buxton 43:00
Yeah. You touched on on your faith. So, so how, you know, how does your faith and kind of contribute to your, to your passion, really, to, you know, to use film to fight injustice to?
Jude Kalman 43:18
Definitely, I think my faith is pretty important. It's central to everything that I do. You know, on so many different levels. I think since, you know, becoming a Christian, I realized that there's more to life than me. Wow. That, you know, my experiences, I've had really cool experiences in my career. Yeah. And I suppose I've definitely been challenged to use that experience and skill set for people who don't, you know, who haven't had that platform. I know, I've said that a million times. But I'm just so convicted by there's so much in the Bible that I raid and I'm just like, Oh my gosh, you know, I've got these talents. I don't want to bury them. Yeah, my insecurities far out. I battle with insecurity, I'm not good enough. Like, you know, my story is good and this and that, you know, the pressure of whatever. But then I think I don't want to bury it. I just want to, I just want to do it because I know I can sort of, you know, do it. You know, and then you know stories like David and how he fights Goliath and he doesn't wear Saul's armor. You know, he operates with a slingshot, and he's, and he's, you know, rock or whatever it is. Yeah. And I sort of think, Hey, you know, maybe, maybe my slingshot and rock is my camera and my computer, you know, and, and that the injustice, you know, the giant of in justice. Yeah. You know, I'm gonna take that down by just using my camera and computer to, you know, to talk about it to share people's stories, how they've overcome what they've been through, you know, you first got to acknowledge stuff like, again, a cool thing in my faith is, you know as a Christian repentance is big. So, to repent you got to acknowledge I'll hold on something's not right. Yeah, you know what I mean? So like...
Tim Buxton 45:26
Yeah am I, how am I contributing to injustice around me it's that that ability to kind of step back right and say, Look, am I complicit?
Jude Kalman 45:36
Yeah, hundred percent
Tim Buxton 45:38
It's doing the hard work of being you know, reflective and and I think when you do you're right you kind of...
Jude Kalman 45:44
Oh, for sure again to me the Bible isn't it's it's a portrait of someone's life sometimes but it's also a mirror and you're looking at it going far out have i have i done that to someone? You know, have I, you know, been racist have I? You know, push someone aside like, avoided, just to get my own gain. Yeah, you know, so to me, my faith is core and completely compels and convicts me to hold on, am I am I respecting this person? That I'm filming? Am I respecting, you know, because you're sort of running through, or, you know, you're filming in the house, and you lugging gear through their house? Hold on, before I before I do any of that this person's a human being, you know, who are they? You know, again, I'm here to, to share their story, not, you know, was in and was back out or whatever. Like, yeah, so I'm compelled by that. Because I guess that's how that that's how Christ loves like, and, you know, if you don't do it up, I mean, the whole series I did with uncontained love was that was about love. And it's like love love does like, golf. He Exactly. I watched him the other day on your podcast. Yeah. And it's so true when it's like, hold on to if you don't do it in love. You just a noise. So that that's harsh, you know, because sometimes, yeah, again, like, you know, people, I could totally get caught up in all these awards and speaking at the UN I'm not doing it for that. I'm doing it one out of a love that I've experienced from from a God that I know. Yeah. And, and that he loves that person. Yeah. As well, way more than I do.
Tim Buxton 47:39
Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thanks. Oh, really, I mean, it's really, you know, just humbling just to hear your approach and the way that you go about I don't think there's anyone better position to do what you do. I'm, I'm just so you know, I'm grateful to be getting to know you and to hear just just incredible heart you have fish films. Now is your little project that you've kind of began, How long ago? Did you start this? What is it a production?
Jude Kalman 48:14
It's a house? Yeah, it's you. It's pretty nice to me. Um, but I do contract other people who have worked in the industry, but right now it's just me. And it really is just made out of obedience, to be honest with you. Yeah. You know, again, yeah, fish films, is a production house that looks for stories that, you know, of people, I love people stories, I love long format stuff. But, you know, the reality is, I have to do other stuff as well, sure. But I've left the corporate space. So really, who I, I try to to help charities tell their stories. And occasionally I'll do a corporate job to, you know, side hustle to, to do the the jobs that I really want to do. Yeah, so it's a production house that really wants to take, you know, production skills, and, and use it for social impact and a good impact. So quite often, you know, I'm not, I will come alongside someone who's already doing the work. So again, I'm not the, you know, the hero or driver. Um, I definitely align myself with guys that have well established in the field. Sure, you know, and they've got that relationship and I have relationship with, you know, that
Tim Buxton 49:35
very collaborative process and
Jude Kalman 49:36
absolutely, again, because I you know, you want to respect these people and, and tell this story with the utmost respect.
Tim Buxton 49:46
Yeah, well, I have the utmost respect for you, and Gali. And one of the ways that people can, you know, learn more about obviously, they can go to fish films that other ways they can follow you the other ways, people You can get involved. You're talking about collaboration.
Jude Kalman 50:03
Yeah, well, I suppose yet the fish films.com.au is my website, fish films. dot F Oto s photos is my Instagram if you want to follow. It's kind of hidden missile, that sort of stuff. I'm terrible collaboration. Hi, if anyone's out there, I'm always looking for interesting story. You know, and I want to tell people stories and the work that they're doing, whether it's with, you know, humanity or environmental stuff. Yeah. Yeah. That's, I guess all the stuff I've done so far with fish films, which actually you asked, When did I officially I don't even remember when I officially started it. But the last two years I've really kind of stepped away from other work that I was doing to really work on projects. Yeah, fish films. So So yeah, that's probably two years in the making. So up until now, it's really been organically, you know, I'll come across a story or a person. I've definitely am super compelled to help the you know, those that don't have a voice Yeah. To help the poor to help the starving the abused and neglected. Now, I'm actually wrestling "what is that?" I still can't shake there are although Australia is going through its own stuff. And we sure there are a lot of people within our own nation going through stuff. I'm still very compelled to though the poor and and the sad reality is there are poor people in this world. Yeah. You know, um, yes. There's poor people in Australia. Sure. I'm talking about Yeah, say pudy. Pie. Yeah, not not cool. Yeah. Yeah, I know that I'm, you know, cool to them. But anywhere along those lines. I'll be there.
Tim Buxton 52:05
Hopefully, when we can travel again. And yeah, can break through those borders. We'll be able to get you on a plane. Yeah, yeah.
Jude Kalman 52:15
Well, yeah, definitely. You might be going back to
Tim Buxton 52:17
Russia, right.
Jude Kalman 52:19
Well, yeah. Hopefully, if the if the board is open, I have been asked to be a judge on the the lamp of Film Festival, which is all about social. Yeah. films and impact films and social advertising, which is super random. Again, my husband found it I didn't even know it existed, but their work is incredible. Because they really are trying to Yeah, give a voice to those that don't have a voice in the media. And in that space.
Tim Buxton 52:49
Jude, thank you so much for coming on in. I have just loved chatting with you Your smile, it's incredible. And your, your joy that you have. And I again, you I definitely think that you are the perfect person to be telling people story to be trusted with people store. And I really want to honor you and value and appreciate you for what you do. I really hope that we can get, you know, get get the word out and people can really see the value of fish films and the value of viewers as a beautiful storyteller. And, and thank you for entrusting me with this podcast and this time together. I've had a great time.
Jude Kalman 53:30
Thank you. I hope it wasn't too crazy. I'm not used to this. Well, now I feel like I got like schooled. This is. This is how you interview someone.
Tim Buxton 53:41
This is my first podcast. You have been schooled by a rookie. So hopefully,
Jude Kalman 53:46
I've learned a lot today. Thank you.
Tim Buxton 53:48
Well, thanks again. Thank you. Well, how was that I had so much fun chatting with Jude Kalman guys head on over to her website, FishFilms.com.au where not only you'll see the incredible show reel that she has. You'll also hear more of her heart and her passion to tell the stories of nonprofits, but also the stories of these beautiful men, women and children that in many cases have overcome such tragedy. They're facing such difficult odds. And there's so much hope and beauty that shines through. She does a phenomenal job, you won't be disappointed checking out her work. Guys, if you'd like to hear the rest of my conversation with Jude. You can do that by becoming a patron of the show where for as little as $5 a month you will get access to bonus content. Like these bonus interviews that I have all of my guests. They go for about 10 or so minutes, guys is plenty of great content that you can only get by becoming a Patreon. Do yourself a favor and do us a favor help us keep producing this podcast and by heading on over to our Patreon page. Now it's time to thank those behind the scenes that are helping to produce this show. Guys like John Ardt & David Gungor, who also known as "The Brilliance" a music group, guys, they produce the music for this track. Thank you so much for letting us use it. And as always, I like to make a shout out to Jose Bitto. Thanks mate for your audio engineering expertise. Now you do a fantastic job producing this show. And lastly, if you're enjoying this podcast, please rate us and you can do that by giving us a high five which is like giving us five stars on Apple podcasts or Spotify wherever you listen to this podcast. And also subscribe to us on YouTube. Make sure you get the videos at all of these podcasts notified and in your inbox. Ready to apply next time we drop an episode. guys. Thanks for joining me today. Please join me again soon for another episode of Justice Matters. I'm your host, Tim Buxton. Thanks for listening.
