Episode 02: Tim Buxton — Meet Your Host Who Moved His Family to Iraq the Same Day ISIS Invaded

Meet your host, Tim Buxton — founder of youBelong Australia and curator of the Justice Matters podcast. Find out why he considers himself a recovering vagabond and the lessons he’s learnt along the way.

Tim shares about his upbringing in a missionary family in Indonesia — where he was born; unpacks his round-the-world ticket adventure that led him to move to New York City; and reveals the passion that has fueled his work for justice that led him and his family to the Middle East, America, and now back to his homeland Australia.

You will also hear the heart and vision behind the Justice Matters podcast and discover the theme behind Season One and the guests that will be appearing.

You can find Tim on Instagram & Twitter @timothykbuxton. To learn more about his work and invite him to speak at you next event, visit timothybuxton.com.

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/justicematters)

Subscribe (https://justicematters.buzzsprout.com)

Full Transcript

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Tim Buxton: Overnight, 1.5 million people have fled essentially into the region that we've moved to. What was going to work in some community development work with those that were affected by the several wars, the Civil War within Iraq as well as the wars between Iran and Iraq and other conflicts that happened turned into overnight how we're going to help and serve refugees that are coming onto our doorstep?

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Ben: You're listening to Justice Matters with Tim Buxton. A podcast inspiring the fight for a world where everyone belongs.

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Ben: Tim Buxton, welcome to the Justice Matters podcast.

Tim: Hey [chuckles] Yes, well, it's good to be on my own show. What can I say?

Ben: You're on the receiving end today of the questions, and for those listening at home, or watching indeed, this is a video podcast as well about Justice Matters. I am Ben. I'm the best mate that Tim has ever had.

Tim: Yes, man, we go way back and--

Ben: We're more brothers.

Tim: Yes, I would say there probably isn't anyone else I would want introducing me, than you.

Ben: I know, that's a nice thing to say.

Tim: Maybe you mean it.

Ben: Mate, I really am looking forward to getting into talking about what this podcast is all about. I know that from your personal who you are, because, we go way back to what? 12-year-olds we met and our journeys have intersected at different times and then taken great distances apart, worlds apart and then come back together and here we are. I know that the subject of this podcast is not just something you thought of during the COVID-19 pandemic, and when you're at home, twiddling your thumbs because Mr Tim Buxton, he is never bored.

He is never not doing anything. He's never scratching his head thinking, "Jeez, what am I going to do today?" Never. This has been quite a number of years in the making. I know it's particularly important to you because of what it enables, the conversations and stuff around social justice. Shall we get into why a podcast and why Justice Matters?

Tim: Yes, first of all, I do want to say, it is I think fitting for you to talk to me about why I'd even start a podcast because I can't think of how many things we've done together over the years, whether it be playing sports together or working together, how many jobs from paper runs together to working in delis to in New York together. Now, funnily enough, here we are, working on podcasts and doing media stuff together once again. It's special for me to have you as part of the production team and helping to kick this thing off, so I'm pretty excited.

Why a podcast? Well, obviously, yes, this isn't something that's just come up last minute. I was thinking about doing a podcast a couple years ago when I first came back from Iraq when I was living with my family there for a few years and then we got pulled out of there pretty quickly, came here to Australia, and I wasn't really sure what was next for me and one of the things I really felt like I wanted to do was start talking to my friends that I've been so inspired with along the years doing incredible work around the world, and just talk to them and interviewing them.

As you say, more recently, as it came down to what theme, how are we going to put some flesh and bones to this idea of a podcast, it was resounding, this whole issue of justice. It's been an issue for me in my life, I've been passionate about really fighting for those that are oppressed and loving them well,, and Justice Matters came about.

Ben: When you say that, it just makes me think back to-- we used to muck around quite a bit and we had quite a competitive relationship growing up and there were times that it got quite heated.

Tim: It did. Hey, and we're still competitive still I think in subtle ways.

Ben: We are, we are, [crosstalk] Yes, we're still trying to get the best of competitiveness out of each other in healthy ways.

Tim: In healthy ways.

Ben: Yes, it doesn't always go right, but I can remember we used to do have-- you probably can still buy them, but the plastic basketball hoops that you put up--

Tim: Oh, my goodness, yes.

Ben: On Venetian blinds or whatever inside the house. There was this rumpus room that you had in your house, remember? It was a nice big room that had a piano in there. There were lounges, there was TV, there were desks and lots of things and there was enough space if we move some things to create an indoor basketball, NBA Jam type of thing, but we used to slam each other up against the glass door.

Tim: Yes, I think we would put mattresses up against this glass doors so that we could totally--

Ben: Yes, I'd get forgotten that, yes. We could slam each other even harder. Play one on one. I don't know how those doors didn't break, but yes, we used to-- it was definitely not-- Basketball is intended to be a non-contact sport, right?

Tim: Yes.

Ben: It certainly wasn't when we played it, and I can remember that sometimes something would happen, and I remember your passion for the fairness of the rules. If somebody would break them or somebody would have a different opinion about what happened, your passion rose up for fairness. I don't know, that just popped in my mind when you're talking about it, and maybe we can allude to that in your journey about how this really sense of justice and that fairness and helping those oppressed come about. It's part of your nature, but also part of your story as well.

Tim: Yes. I think right now we see a lot of justice issues that get highlighted, and there's a lot of confusion, a lot of misconceptions I think about justice issues. There's a lot of controversy. People tend to get pretty passionate as I can be quite passionate myself about what I believe is right and fair and, of course, right now we've got systemic racism and quite often immigration and refugee issues that have really risen to the forefront. Right now, these real issues are hot button things right now, but there's so many other issues that are out there that I feel I've so much to learn and so much to be informed upon.

There's also incredible people out there. I've had the privilege of meeting, of knowing people I respect dearly. They've got skin in the game that are doing incredible things to fight the so many injustices that unfortunately our world is plagued with right now. I'm passionate about giving voice to that, to learning. I found that most of the time that I've really grown in my views and understanding of things is when I've humbled myself to be in the listener's seat and just to listen, and to learn. I can quite often be passionate about what I think I know at the time, but yes, it's what I hope-- That's what really what I hope, again, out of this podcast is that people will find a safe place, a welcome place to come, to learn, to listen.

We're on this journey. None of us have it all together. None of us have all the answers. None of my guests will have all the answers. There's grace, right? There's grace to learn and to grow in that journey. That's really one of the things I really want this podcast to be, and most of those exciting things the first season is really an engagement with a lot of my friends. Hence why I had to have you on-

Ben: I get it now.

Tim: -as the first episode now.

Ben: I get it now.

Tim: Just dear friends, people I really respect, people I love, people I know. They're not just hot air. They have really made a difference and continue to do that.

Ben: What is it? I want to get into your journey and then you belong, of course, in some of those initiatives that you've been a part of, but let's just-- We're talking about the podcast itself. What do you hope that people will get out of listening?

Tim: Yes, so hopefully you'll feel like you can come in and listen and really engage with the conversations that I have. I really hope in the process that you'll be confronted a little bit, that it'll get a bit uncomfortable because there's nothing easy listening to gross injustices around the world. I think getting a close-in view, listening to personal stories, listening to how maybe you unknowingly have contributed to the injustice and the suffering of others, and ways we can all do better. If you're up for it, I hope you don't mind if things get a little bit uncomfortable.

I find I've only ever grown when I've been willing to get uncomfortable and would be willing to challenge maybe the views that I've had, or even the echo chamber I've quite often lived within where I find people around me that just believe what I believe and reinforce what I believe and/or what I think I know. Again, these are people I trust. These are voices that I believe are real leaders and have made lots of sacrifices doing what they're doing. Yes, I hope you be confronted, but then I also want it though, to be a hopeful podcast in the sense that at the end of maybe drawn into some very difficult conversations and confronting, conflicting issues that really deal with human suffering,

I still want people to be inspired, really, that there are incredible people out there making an incredible difference, that it actually isn't that hard, that we can make a difference, even with little changes, little adjustments to our lives, that we can actually make a remarkable difference in someone's life.

I really want people to feel like, after listening to an episode, that they're really are going to be inspired to fight for a world where everyone belongs. For me, that means where everyone has the opportunity to experience justice and freedom and compassion. That to me really is the hope that we go out there not just listen to some interesting stories and get in line just a little bit, but really we go out there ready to act, to do something about it. I know from the guests that we've got, you're going to be ready to go out there and make a difference. I've been inspired by them. I'm excited to share those guests and these conversations with everybody.

Ben: Yes. I've had a Sneak Peek at the guest list, and it's pretty juicy. Some really amazing people with just an amazing perspective experience and heart. What you're talking about is surely a world that we really fundamentally all want. [crosstalk] most if not all of us, a place where everyone belongs, a place where people are heard, listened to, a place where if someone has and someone doesn't, that we can share. You've alluded to some of the crises we have had at the moment.

Tim: Sure.

Ben: Often, unfortunately, these issues of social justice, they become political, they become polarized. We get a left and right, which have their place, I think that's essentially your message, but where does it go? How do we move this? How do we move it into an area that goes right and we make progress?

Tim: Yes. For me, it's always come down to this concept and it's something I've really only been, I think, aware of more recently is a lot of the dominating voices out there, whether it be in the media or politics, that seem to dominate the airwaves today tend to be dominated by very negative emotive forces. By that, I mean whether- like you said, there's the right or the left. There's the conservatives and the progressives or liberals and we box extremes, but they've both tended to use very similar negative emotions to propel their message across.

For example, on the left, if you are of an opinion that might be different to somebody else or to what maybe someone on the left might espouse to-- It's always funny to me the right-left like, I might be left of you, but I'm probably right of somebody else. It's a very subjective thing to be anyway. No one thinks that they're either left or right. They think they're in the middle, somehow, some way. Let's just use this binary language if we have to, but if I'm right of where someone left is thinking, there's a great temptation and we see it in the media, to shame, "Oh, you must--" "How could you think that?" "You're a bigot," or "You're intolerant," or you're-- Whatever the case might be. We use lots of strong language.

Some of it, quite honestly, is warranted. Yes. If you come out and say pretty nasty, you deserve to be called out. There's this intolerance, there's this inability to-- and so what I see is this use of shame and just real negative emotion to propel your point, but on the right hand of the equation, you've got fear, being the other negative emotion and this idea that, "Look, if we help, or if we let certain people into our community, or we let people into our country, or if we let certain things to change, then watch out everything's going to fall apart."

There's this fear domination tactic, really, that, "Yes--" I don't know. No one likes to feel that sense of fear in them. They'll do whatever they can to align with that view and to me, it's just so sad. I've never done anything I don't think in my life good or remarkable when I've been led by shame or fear. None of those emotions have really served me very well. What I would wish, what I'd hope for is that-- and this is to me at the heart of what justice is that we would be led by courage. We would be led by compassion. We'd be led by forgiveness and kindness. To me, these beautiful positive emotions, yes, they can have some fight to them. They can have some [crosstalk]

Ben: Are you talking about rolling--[crosstalk]

Tim: I'm not talking about flakiness here. Some of the most courageous, brave, strong people I've ever met are incredibly kind and humble. I believe those are the emotions that should lead us forward as we tackle issues that rightly size it, just the grossest injustices in society, things that have been there for far too long that we allowed to be there, and we need to highlight those things, but I think we need to lead with those kinds of positive forward-looking emotions that lead and drive us. I know whenever I've done anything of worth in my life, it's always been because I've been able to be led by those emotions. Yes.

Ben: How do we break those negative motivations and go to positive? I think what maybe we're doing here with Justice Matters is talking about it is allowing the conversation. It involves listening, it involves-- You never learn anything, or you never really grow by talking, you grow by listening, and then you get faces to a name and you get faces to an experience. In this longer form, we're able to understand probably more so than a quick two-minute Twitter or-

Tim: Yes, I mean--

Interviewer: -Facebook rant.

Tim: Wouldn't you say-- That's the one thing I find that I've struggled with social media and I'm not always using it well, but you say something and it gets weaponized so quickly, or it gets jumped on and suddenly there's this debate back and forth. If you've ever got caught into a Facebook feud or whatever it is, it's like, "Ah, getting so misunderstood because I'm--" You're just going at each other, but you're right. That's the beauty of maybe a podcast. What I love about being able to sit down in a longer form, chat with people is conversations, man.

It's a way you kind of really do get the opportunity to really learn about somebody. There's a quote well-known author-psychologist, Brene Brown has, and she says that "It's hard to hate somebody up close." It's this idea of like, "When I get to know somebody's story, when I really get up close and personal with them, I can't have indifference or hate towards you anymore." You will cross over into compassion and empathy and understanding, and isn't that what this world needs more than ever is this ability to listen to somebody.

If I could use an example, and this incredible credible guy that I've known personally. I wrote, again, one of those issues where you write a post on Facebook and I was highlighting the recent protests that were happening in Australia that had to do with Aboriginal Lives Matters and deaths in custody. This person remarked in my comments and said, "Look, isn't that where the protests burn the Australian flag?" I know it was a really well-meaning comment. I know that because I know this person to be such a wonderful kindhearted person, but to then be able to say, "Look--" Now I remember just thinking about what that was settled. How do I reconcile? It's a very tricky issue. These aren't simple black and white often issues, and I thought, what I would love to do is, I would love to sit with whoever may have burned that flag, the Australian flag. I'd want to hear from them, why did they feel so angered? What pain in them-- What was it that rage that was in them or whatever emotion they had that would make them do that? I'd want to listen to them, find out why, hear their story.

I bet I would probably learn a thing or two about them and maybe I wouldn't be so outraged at such an unpatriotic act that could be. I think if all of us could maybe do that-- They say we've got two ears for a reason and one mouth. If we could be more inclined to, "I'm saying this to myself to stop, humble myself a little bit and listen and learn," I think we could create a world totally where everyone feels valued, heard and much fair, beautiful [unintelligible 00:22:47].

Ben: Yes. Its time. Totally. What I really like to know here now is your journey. You've taken on a sense of a drive to create a world where everyone belongs. That's the catchphrase of this podcast. You have initiative here, a charity here called youBelong, and this is just a fundamental belief. Can you tell us a bit about your journey? Not just screaming for justice playing basketball against me, but how did you find yourself here with this? What was it that kind of created this thing DNA for you of social justice and belonging?

Tim: It wasn't long ago, I was listening to a podcast and the guests just said, "Look, what's your core conviction that you have in your life? What is it?" I had to stop and think about that for a little bit, as you do, it's quite a profound question. What would I say as a real core conviction? I just couldn't escape from this sense of 'everyone belongs'. I want everyone to feel welcome. When people come into my world, my stratosphere, whoever they are, I want them to feel loved, I want them-- Hospitality is huge in my family. When you come to a house, we just-- it's all about creating environment of just hospitality, welcoming people, and loving people, hopefully, without agenda, irrespective.

I grew up, as you know, Ben, I was born in Indonesia, in another country, and my parents were missionaries in Indonesia, in particular in this place called West Papua, which is the Indonesian Province of Papua, amongst a jungle Highland ethnic group, the Dani people. I was a little kid. I don't remember having much memories, but my parents-- I think I was instilled from a very young age to have parents that just loved people and welcomed them, too. I can't even remember most Christmases that we would have, and this was when we would move back to Australia. I couldn't remember. We would have someone from the local, like low security prison system in our home sharing Christmas with us. Christmas wasn't just this sacred, personal, family thing. It was where even the prisoners locally down the road deserve to be in our home. I'm so thankful and proud of that heritage. We always had people from all over the world staying in our home, and I loved, obviously felt as a third culture kid myself. Never really felt like I belonged to one place.

It's probably spurred the fact that I've traveled the world and lived in various countries even taking, dragging my family with me, or they've willingly come with, at least my my wife, the kids don't have a choice, but-- [crosstalk] Exactly. I think that core value in me has been how beautiful and wonderful this world is and how much we all need to feel that sense of love and belonging in it. Obviously, it became natural when we moved back to Australia after working with refugees in Northern Iraq, to really be passionate about helping refugees that were settling in Australia, feel that same sense of belongingness that they belong here, that they're not just peripheral members of society, but as Australians, as the very hot-- This is their place at home, as much as it is mine. It's a very difficult thing to do when you're a foreigner, when you don't know the language, when you've experienced incredible trauma and you've lost everything. It's so difficult. There's obviously a lot of places we've gone and I've gone and worked in over the years.

Ben: People can obviously read your story in different places on the Internet, but do you want to go into-- briefly touch on where it started for you, from your personal journey? You said you were born into a missionary family, grew up as a PK, pastor's kid in a church, and that's where we met. Right from the very start, there was always a strong sense of purpose that you had, mission that you had, and it was just part of who you were. Then it was around the time 20, 22 or something,

Tim: 22, yes.

Ben: I got married and then you were-- My best mates got hitched.

Tim: Exactly.

Ben: You just kind of took the first opportunity.

Tim: Someone ditched me and I needed to go and obviously find my own wife.

Ben: Exactly. I figured. [crosstalk] Can you just explain a little bit about that work there, and then how that led to living in Iraq. That's a story and then we could go on quite a bit.

Tim: I moved to New York. I forget now, it was 2004 I believe when I first moved there. I'd travelled there once or twice before on an around the world ticket.

Ben: What did you like about that opportunity?

Tim: It was to work at a church called Times Square Church in the heart of New York City. There had a massive emphasis and focus on helping the gangs of New York back in its early days. David Wilkerson wrote The Cross And The Switchblade which if you're Christian and maybe a little older--

Ben: I remember reading that book. I went to a state school here, a public school as you call it. I remember it was on the list of grade nine or whatever books to read and I remember reading that.

Tim: Usually influential book and just like a remarkable story of someone who wanted to go into the heart of some of the most dangerous communities in New York and bring hope and light and love and the message of Jesus. For me growing up as a pastor's kid and my Christian faith being such an important motivator for me, I was really excited to have this opportunity to go and intern in New York City at this church. It was an incredible opportunity. I ended up staying there for 10 years, I met my wife Sarah. The job really for me was a dream job. I got to coordinate short term trips that would go around the world, whether it be doing medical trips, or construction trips, or working in slums or in red light districts or homeless and drug addicts in Colombia. I got to coordinate these trips, I got to go and build and create these trips and lead them and train people that would go on them and how to best serve in these contexts.

For me personally, that really was what, for me, Jesus was all about. Jesus was about going to those that are on the out of society. Everyone loved in the Bible, they would call them sinners, which was really just codeword for "you're just not good enough." Whether you got leprosy, and you smell, and you're diseased and you've obviously brought that upon yourself somehow in some way, or whether you're--

Ben: You're cut off.

Tim: Cut off. Exactly. You were ostracized, yet it seemed that all Jesus cared about was being with those kinds of people and telling them you're already in. Telling them in my books, I've got this big circle called grace, and you're on the inside of that and you're welcomed, and you're loved. In fact, it's quite often the people that were pointing the fingers and making everyone else feel like they weren't good enough that he was very frustrated and angry and passionately against.

Ben: That sounds like a not really a religious concept but-

Tim: Yes, exactly.

Ben: -just a fundamental concept of how we work together best as humanity.

Tim: Yes, exactly. One of the verses in Scripture that stood out to me over the years, was-- There's a couple of them and they're both quotations that Jesus says using another prophet from long ago, a Prophet called Isaiah, very well-known prophet in Hebrew Scripture and in the Old Testament writings. The first one is when Jesus got up and said, "The Spirit of God is on me because he's got his hand on me, he's anointed me to bring good news to," who? To the poor, to the blind, to those in prison, to all the outskirts, to those who are mourning, to those that are suffering. I've come here to tell you; this is your year.

"I've come here to give you joy, where there's sadness to bring freedom when there's shackles of bonds on you." To me that seemed to be so central to all that Jesus was about. That for me has been What is I've so wanted to be my life's calling, especially growing up and wanting to go into parts of the world which seemed to me to be so much suffering going on and so much pain and so much heartache.

Then the last verse, which is where Jesus says-- He talks about his own approach to serving and loving people, is like a bruised read. He will not break and a flickering flame he will not snuff out. In other words, those people that are bruised and broken and bent over, there is no way that God or anyone who's doing his work. Those are the ones we should go up after to help to be there. Most people will just write it off and be like, "You're not important." Then the flickering flame. This flame that's ready to just snuff out. Instead, he's like, "No, these are the ones. We had to go to help to lift up, to breathe new life into until that flicker becomes a flame again." That's been really at the heart of who I am and really what I believe the heart of what it is to live out my faith.

Ben: I know your story, of course, but from there you go with a family of three and you decide-- I don't know how, but you decide with your wife and obviously a step of faith, a sense of, "Yes, this is this is right for us." Maybe from our faith background do you have that sense of comfort that this is a sense of calling. When you have a faith background that can really assist in getting beyond the fear and going, "Yes, I'm going to step into this," I believe in nature of it-

Tim: Right. Sense of purpose. 

Ben: -and the nature of the universe as benevolent, as inclusive, as for those who are stepping out and seeking to build bridges and make great change. You actually landed in Iraq, in Northern Iraq. Incidentally, that was the day that ISIS invaded. What did that feel like? How did it happen? What did that feel like?

Tim: The process of getting to Iraq as you can imaging wasn't just something was like, "Oh, Sarah, let's go to Northern Iraq." She was pregnant with our first child when I first went to Iraq and really was like, "Oh my gosh." This is a place that people can go and help. It's not a place. It's not a no-go zone, and you just can't not go there. There were other families that were there that I was like, "Wow, other families are living here. This is possible. Maybe I can come along and help." Obviously, it's a place where not many people wanted to go, so that was back in 2010, 10 years ago.

It took a while though for Sarah to warm to the idea and it was always a decision that we made together, and three years before we ended up moving there after first indicating how this was something that I'd actually be interested in doing. We get there. Like you said, ISIS invades the city of Mosul, just a 45-minute drive away from the airport that we flew into and landed at. No one had heard of ISIS. They were just a ragtag rebel group in Syria at the time, and then suddenly, they rise to notoriety through their blitzkrieg into Iraq and capturing so much huge amounts of land there, and in particular, the city of Mosul, which was second largest city in Iraq and had weapons and they kept oil fields. It was just a time where I think overnight 1.5 million people have fled essentially into the region that we've moved to.

What was going to be working in some community development work with those that were affected by the several wars, the Civil War within Iraq as well as the wars between Iran and Iraq and other conflicts that had happened turned into overnight, 'how are we going to help and serve refugees that are coming onto our doorstep and are currently going through genocide and other sufferings.'

Like you said, that sense of 'maybe this is why we're here. God's got us here for this reason,' kicked in and we went through some highs and some lows, some incredible challenges, a time where we had to leave quickly and evacuate the country and then coming back in and really then launching into the work which was called the Refuge Initiative, we started an initiative of the organization I was with that really dealt with providing housing and education, and trauma care to these families that were in desperate need. It was probably the most wonderful years of my life as well as the most difficult years.

Ben: Now, here in Australia obviously after up and life there for different circumstances, different situations but the reasons I should say. How did that then lead to you and starting you belong over here?

Tim: It was a very difficult decision to leave. We didn't even have a lot of time to make up our minds to leave when we did. We got one of the last flights out of Iraq before the airports all shut down in their country for, I think it was almost six months.

Ben: Why was that?

Tim: Well, there was--

Ben: Because of unrest?

Tim: So, what had happened was the Northern region where we were in Kurdistan had voted for independence and that really didn't make Southern Iraq very happy because that'd be breaking away if they followed through with that. Syria and Turkey and Iran were very nervous because if that went through, then the Kurdish population which lived, almost 50 million of them-- There's 50 million Kurds, they don't have their own state. They're scattered predominantly within those four countries, would have made all those countries feel nervous that an uprising and breaking away, of wanting independence in those regions would follow suit.

So basically, all borders into our region were shut with all these nations. They kind of put the squeeze and said, "Look, if this is what you're going to vote for, then we're going to all make it very difficult for you." My wife, Sarah, was pregnant with baby number four, and there was a real-- There was a progression in our work that we were hoping to hand it over to locals. There was a plan that within a couple of years we would be able to leave and just leave the flourishing work over to the locals that were already doing that. So, I guess with everything that went on, it was like-- I guess we're just, now is a good time to leave and it was the hardest.

I never wept so much and even memories of it still kind of go a bit deep there. So we ended up coming back to Australia and quite honestly, I was depressed, I was a bit of at a loss. I felt like I was just in my element serving there, but I found out that Yazidi family, families from Iraq and Syria that had now been granted refugee visas to come and live in Australia. There was a town nearby three hours of where I was living at the time, I just got in my car soon as I could drive up to see and try and meet with some of these families and meet with the community members that were trying to help them.

I just wanted to somehow be a part of that. So that really was the beginnings of starting youBelong and what it's become today which I look back on now. I think in the couple of short years it's been going as just thriving and I've got an incredible team that I'm really kind of in the background just cheering them on as they do wonderful things to help these families just feel loved and really empower them. There are just-- This is wonderful.

Ben: One of the things about your team that really inspires me, warms my heart to see how you embrace others and different people, different cultures. I've certainly seen you do that for these Yazidi people and the Kurds and-- What are some of the things like-- You have picnics out there in Toowoomba, celebrations and family barbecues-- Aussies are pretty--

Tim: Pretty lame.

Ben: Pretty lame. There's no dancing unless there's too much alcohol, but these guys-- What are some of the things that you've-- Just great things about their culture?

Tim: Oh my goodness. They are the most hospitable people I've ever met, and I remember going back to living in Iraq. I remember coming back to the States for, I think a two-week trip. Leaving my wife and kids in this small community where-- I would say small, is 150,000 people in that town. There are only a couple of other Western families that were living in that town. I remember just feeling so at peace leaving my wife and children behind there because I knew that probably every single day, she'd be getting food dropped over at her house from the neighbors. They would check in on her. They would care for her like she was not only a guest, but she was like family.

You would go to eat, and you could go to a Kurdish or an Iraqi or Syrian or anyone from the Middle East for that matter into their home. You would be treated like a king and you would eat the most incredible food there is on this planet. There would always be 10 times more food that would be for the people in that room at the time. It's almost like they prepare a meal assuming that three other families are going to be joining them that night. So that's what these picnics are like.

There are copious amounts of food. We make sure that everyone feels like, "Of course, there's a room at the table for you. Of course--" That table is this sheet on the ground, like this little rug here with food just plunked on it. There's always room for anybody to sit at it. There's no set number of chairs at the table. It's whoever wants to, can come. Yes, the dancing's rowdy. The music is loud. It's like a rave party loud dance music and--

Ben: It's gets distorting.

Tim: Totally.

Ben: It's not playing unless it's distorting.

Tim: It's not, and you've got to make sure you've prepared to lock pinkies with another bloke or girl [crosstalk] lady and jiggle your shoulders and get the feet moving. Us Aussies look like the most awkward bunch of robots trying to dance when we join in, unless it's you, Ben, because you have the moves like Jager.

Ben: It's a pity this is an audio podcast.

Tim: [chuckles] Exactly. It's just a heck of a lot of fun and hospitality. I guess it's what I miss even myself so much about those places I've had the privilege of living. I think that we as Australia have done a good job at welcoming people and I'm hopeful that we will continue to do that in so many ways.

Ben: That's part of the real value here of listening and learning from other people. Hearing their stories and getting a sense of their culture. It enriches who we are. We've got so much to learn from each other. We do some things good here and some things not so good in our culture. It's beautiful when we can be welcoming, but we can also listen and learn, and live together and appreciate each other's beauty.

Well, I'm looking forward to these stories and you say you're interviewing friends and the friends that you have made. I mean, Tim, I have to mention this. You've been in GQ magazine which I'm still a bit--In our history of competitiveness, I'm not sure how I'm going to up that one but-- I'm sure you could go. The listeners could go online and google GQ and Tim Buxton and they could read that.

Tim: Look--

Ben: It's probably some nice “pickies” in there too.

Tim: Well, [chuckles] you're making me blush, Ben. I would say this. I do have some great, great friends. I've got people that I've looked up to over the years. I've been so blessed to know that you'll be meeting so inspiring, people that have informed me and led me to become a better person. I think they've have made me realize that they've believed in me as well. People that have supported me in my work and my passions, I'm really grateful that they've agreed to come on this project I have. I really hope it'll have the opportunity to span a few seasons and really continue to be a place, like I said, where we can all learn together on this journey of making this place, this world that we call home a place where everyone belongs, and yes, I'm super, super excited.

Ben: Awesome. Now, I have to ask because this is a question that you ask all your guests and it's a great one to finish off because there's going to be people listening that may have a sense that, "Yes, I believe in a world, a just world, and I believe that fundamentally that I need to make other people's problems my problem as well," but then, a lot of us are like, "I have enough problems in my life. Well, let's take it to me personally, four kids, that's like now, I haven't got a mortgage, but I've got bills to pay. I've got troubles in my life, why do I need to go looking for problems? Why does the cause of justice matter to you and why should it matter? Why does it need to matter to every single human?"

Tim: Great question.

Ben: I'm not expecting some answer.

Tim: Yes, some mike drop answer.

Ben: Mike drop answer, man, [crosstalk]

Tim: No, and it doesn't have to be, I don't think, it doesn't have to be a mike drop answer. For me, it comes back to my core convictions and that is because we all belong, and the minute I say you're worthy of love, you're worthy of acceptance, you're worthy to have your voice heard, you're worthy to have your dreams and passions to be pursued, but somehow you're kind of not worthy. I'm not willing to do what it takes to make sure everyone has the same opportunity to experience freedom, that everyone has the same opportunity to experience compassion. I don't want to make this a long-winded answer, but I think we're all complicated people.

We all have issues. We all essentially have things that would write us off the list of being worthy so to speak if truth be told, but that is not the truth. I think we all are worthy and we all should be passionate. I should be passionate about using whatever opportunity and resources and privilege to make sure that other people less fortunate than me have the same opportunities and I think that's what's going to create a world and build a world where we all-- and a more beautiful world, more wonderful world for the soul to live in, for our children to live in and yes, that's my answer.

Ben: Well, my arm subscribing.

Tim: Good.

Ben: For sure.

Tim: You better.

Ben: Yes, I guess. At least is there a way you're subscribed to just one episode because I subscribed to this one.

Tim: It's a YouTube channel, Justice Matters TV, you can subscribe and make sure whenever there's a new episode that drops, you can also become a Patreon and you can help me [crosstalk] and just talk briefly about what’s that about Patreon. Patreon.com/justicematterspodcast I believe or Justice Matters. I'm not sure actually. I'll get that right-- In real show notes, it'll be correct. I should know that.

Ben: Is there a way to support?

Tim: You can support as little as a dollar a month.

Ben: A dollar?

Tim: Yes.

Ben: I can do that, I can do three of those.

Tim: We can even get you on the highlights. There's bonus content that'll be up there for people to listen to bonus questions for the guest.

Ben: Maybe even of this interview.

Tim: Exactly, you could even have a one-on-one Skype with me.

Ben: Wow.

Tim: If you really want to-

Ben: Man, that's got to be worth.

Tim: -become a supporter of the podcast, but yes, obviously we're on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and other various platforms out there as well. There's ways you can subscribe to the podcast there. Yes, definitely get on it, share it with other people. If you gained anything, I hope it'll be something that you'd want to share with your friends.

Ben: Yes, and just subscribing is supporting as well. It really helps in the online world that we have. If you believe in what this is about-

Tim: Getting some message out.

Ben: -subscribe everywhere you can find a subscribe button.

Tim: Yes, do it, please.

Ben: Awesome.

Tim: Thanks, Benny.

Ben: Thanks, Tim. Mate, I'm so proud of you and the work that you've already done and your authenticity and your journey. I know this thing is not a fad thing for you because I know you more than anyone. We sometimes say that we have the one where you have so many experiences that aren't kind of, we have the same consciousness.

Tim: I know.

Ben: As I said before we have crossed paths and done journeys together very, very so often in life and unexpectedly, but I know one thing you're, this is authentic and you're an authentic person and you're not only for the cause of welcoming people, but you are a welcoming person and somebody that even I talk about the Iraqis. I just think I go around watching the footie at your place the other day, there was food out in the tables, some great hors d'oeuvres, some varieties of "Hey, come stay for dinner." It's just all part of your nature and I support you and, really, thanks for letting me be a little bit of a part of it.

Tim: Thanks, Benny. Awesome. Well, hopefully, there's a couple of episodes already up, so jump on, listen to them.

Ben: Do that. Awesome.

Tim: It's been fun, man. Thanks, bye.

[music]

Tim: Well, you made it to the end of the very first episode of the Justice Matters Podcast brought to you by youBelong Australia. I had a great time catching up with my best mate, Ben, talking about my own personal journey, my own passion for justice, and a bit about the purpose of season one of this podcast. Now I have a goal of getting 20 episodes out there and I'm not going to be able to do that without your support and if you want to learn how to do that, you can jump to our website justicematters.tv. On that page, you can get a link to our Patreon page, where for as little as $5 a month, you can become a producer of the show for as little as $1 a month, you can support and help us make this show, this podcast a reality.

A special shout out goes to Rachel Carter who became the first Patreon. She's also a member of the youBelong team. Thank you so much, Rachel, for getting on board so quickly. Thanks goes to Jose Biotto, the audiovisual engineer, mastermind behind the scenes, and thanks goes to music duo David Gungor and John Arndt, also known as the brilliance for providing the music for this podcast.

If you're enjoying it so far, would you consider reviewing and rating this podcast on Apple, Spotify, Google, wherever you're tuning in, or if you're watching along on YouTube, do me a favor, you can hit subscribe. You can also hit the bell to get notified when future episodes are uploaded. Please join me again soon for another episode of the Justice Matters Podcast. I am your host, Tim Buxton. Thank you for listening.

[music]

[00:58:44] [END OF AUDIO]